Owen Gun Project, Did it Sink with the Centaur? Part 6
Will we ever know if the Owen Gun Project sank with the Centaur?
In 1943 the oceans and seas off Australia were a war zone the Battle for Australia and the South Pacific was in full fight. As the Centaur sailed up the coast of New South Wales towards Queensland the Centaur passed close to the last resting places of the Kalingo, the Lydia M Childs, the Wollongbar, the Fingal and the Limerick. These merchant ships had been sunk, a with great loss of life, by Japanese submarines between 18 January and 29 April 1943. There could be no doubt of the intensity of enemy activity in the sea lanes by which the Centaur was making her way north. The men who sent her knew that Japanese Submarines were operating, basically unopposed in this strategically important area. The Australian High Command were sending men and supplies to New Guinea, Port Moresby and they never had enough Armed Navy ships to escort them. So the Australian Hospital Ship was sent defenceless into a sea of trouble. Its immunity was supposed to be under the Hague Conventions of 1907, a treaty that the Japanese never signed and only verbally agreed that it would abide by. Under the Hague Convention the articles specially prohibited the carrying of soldiers or arms. In World War One the Germans sunk many Allied Hospital ships on the basis that they were carrying arms. The British denied, (it but not too strongly) that was also the reason given by the Germans that they sunk the Lusitania, as it was carrying arms the British have always had a problem trying to prove that they didn’t.
At 4 am on 14 May 1943 the brightly lit Army Hospital Ship Centaur was torpedoed and sunk off Stradbroke Island. In this despicable act, 268 lives were lost, with the Centaur, more than from any other Japanese torpedo attack in Australian waters during the war. (or more, as there is still controversy as to the numbers on board and the number of survivors and who they were)
William Blake said, “A Truth told with false intent, beats all the lies man can invent”.
General Macarthur: said in his press statement.
“I cannot express the revulsion I feel at this unnecessary act of cruelty. Its limitless savagery represents the continuation of a calculated attempt to create a sense of trepidation through the practice of horrors designed to shock normal sensibilities.
The brutal excesses of the Philippines campaign, the execution of our captured airmen, the barbarity of Papua, are all of a pattern. The enemy does not understand – he apparently cannot understand – that our invincible strength is not so much of the body, as it is of the soul, and rises with adversity.
The Red Cross will not falter under this foul blow. Its light of mercy will but shine the brighter on our way to inevitable victory.”
Stirring words, but what was it about the Centaur that he could not say, His telegrams say that there is a big secret to be kept that concerned the sinking, what was it? If some thing is not the whole truth, is it a lie and if the Centaur was carrying guns, ammunition and soldiers then the ones that ordered this to occur had committed the War Crimes, not the Japanese Submarine Captain.
If this is so the Australian The High Command would have ordered non- combatants to go un protected, and unknowing that they were legitimate targets. The Germans, Italians and Japanese were tried for War Crimes after the war. Crimes against the Geneva Convention and the Hague Convention, even though the Japanese never signed either documents but Australia did. Why did the Australians High Command miss out on being charged for War Crimes as they in more than one instance sent there own innocents unprotected to their deaths. Is that not worse than sending the enemy to their deaths.
Those that knew the guns and ammunition was on board and there is little doubt that the Army Service Corps were classified as soldiers and not as ‘medical personal’, murdered those nurses and medical staff just as certainly, and as criminally as the Japanese soldiers that hacked the heads off Australian servicemen.
In Australia there was no proper investigation just a flurry of teleprinted (telegrams) messages ordering everyone to keep it a secret. The Centaur case file was closed on 14th December 1948 without any serious investigation or charges laid even against the Japanese Submarine Captain.
Was the Centaur in breach of the Hague Conventions?
Article 8 The Protection due to Hospital Ships and Infirmaries of vessels ceases if they are used to commit acts detrimental to the enemy.
That is a very broad statement.
This theory stems from the various rumours spreading after Centaur’s sinking. If Centaur had been in breach of the Hague Convention of 1907, and someone had informed the Japanese of this, I-177 may have been under valid orders to attack. When Centaur left Sydney, her decks were packed with green-uniformed men, and as Field Ambulance uniforms were only distinguishable from other Army uniforms by badge insignia and the colouration of the cloth band ringing the hat, a distant observer could have concluded that the hospital ship was transporting soldiers. The Australian Army Service Corps were soldiers. Those witnessing the loading in Sydney would have seen the ambulance drivers bring their weapons aboard, and could have come to a similar conclusion. Those same witnesses could have seen ammunition being loaded. As soon as a crane is used to take goods from the dock to the holds the information as to what it was, would be very public. If a spy or informant had passed this information to the Japanese, I-177 could have been lying in wait. The main flaw in this theory is the question of how Nakagawa and his crew were able to predict that Centaur was taking an alternate route and how they were able to determine the new route selected. Except for the information that the Japanese as well as capable of launching midget submarines also used a Sea Plane for observation, which was capable of flying over and covering large areas. The Sea Plane then docked in with the submarine was re-fuelled and then sent out again until it would rendezvous again with the submarine for re-fuelling. The information on the course of an un armed, un escorted without any convoy protection would have been easy pickings and music to a Japanese Submarine Captains ears. As soon as spy, who had radio communication, gave the story that one hospital ship was seen loading arms and soldiers. Any Australian hospital ship would have been a fair target.
Similar but later rumours included that during her first voyage, Centaur had transported soldiers to New Guinea, or Japanese prisoners of war back to Australia for interrogation, and consequently had been marked as a legitimate target by the Japanese. Centaur had carried 10 prisoners of war on her return voyage from New Guinea, but they were all wounded personnel; transporting them on a hospital ship was lawful by the Conventions.
The captain of the Centaur, G. H. Murray, of Aberdeen, was among the missing and used his words carefully when asked if Munitions were on boerd.
You will notice he did not say Hague Conventions as the Geneva Conventions was nothing to do with Hospital Ships it mainly concerned Prisoners of War.
Again discussion is supporting the Geneva Conventions again nothing about the Hague Convention which was the law of the matter.
As you can see the Commission kept most people talking about the markings on the ship and if they can remember if the lights had been left on before the ship sank.
Most of the statements note that there was two explosions prior to the ship sinking, which would indicate that something on board had exploded after the torpedo had exploded when it hit the side of the ship. The Commission tries to lead the witnesses into saying that the medical ether in the First Aid kits could have caused this secondary explosion but Davidsons evidence states that the ships hull plates were blown outwards from inside to outside. Something substantial must have caused this and it was not explained in anyway by the Commission in fact it was not commented on by the Commission nor was any other witnesses called to give evidence to refute or support it. They just ignored it.
In the paragraph cut out above you can see that someone had marked the margin just where the transcript evidence had recoded that statement. Maybe they were contemplating editing it out of the record or maybe they were interested in asking more questions on the matter. All we know was the silence was deafening. When the shipwreck is found it would be possible to identify the cause of this internal explosion. The questions on why two explosions instead of one, could also be answered but funnily enough there does seem to be a reluctance to find it. They can find the Bismark and the Titanic in the middle of the Atlantic miles deep but the greatest shipping disaster in Australian waters has been to difficult for the Australian and State Governments.
The ship is yet to be discovered: claims of discovery were made in 1995, but the wreck was later claimed to be another ship but does the Government want to find it?
In 1995, it was announced that the shipwreck of Centaur had been located in waters 9 nautical miles (17 km) from the lighthouse on Moreton Island, a significant distance from her believed last position. The finding was reported on A Current Affair, during which footage of the shipwreck, 170 metres (560 ft) underwater, was shown. Discoverer Donald Dennis claimed the identity of the shipwreck had been confirmed by the Navy, the Queensland Maritime Museum, and the Australian War Memorial. A cursory search by the Navy confirmed that there was a shipwreck at the given location, which was gazetted as a war grave and added to navigation charts by the Australian Hydrographic Office.
The government accepted the false discovery of a wreck near Moreton as the Centaur in 1995. During this time, two wreck divers, Captain Trevor Jackson and Simon Mitchell, used the location for a four hour world record dive on 14 May 2002, during which they examined the wreck and took measurements, claiming that the ship was too small to be Centaur. Jackson had been studying Centaur for some time, and believed that the wreck was actually another, much smaller ship, the 55-metre (180 ft) long MV Kyogle, a lime freighter purchased by the Royal Australian Air Force and sunk during bombing practice on 12 May 1951. The facts gathered on the dive were inconclusive, but the divers remained adamant it was not Centaur, and passed this information onto Nick Greenaway, producer of the news magazine show 60 Minutes. The wreck reported by Don Dennis as the Centaur is now claimed by the Australian Government, to be the SS Kyogle, a ship which was used by the RAAF for target practice in the 1950′s.
Does the Government not want to find the Centaur? Would they still be embarrassed if we found out what was in it? As there seems further controversy and differing stories.
After World War II, several searches of the waters around North Stradbroke and Moreton Islands failed to reveal Centaur’s location. The story released to the media was, ‘that she had sunk off the edge of the continental shelf, to a depth the Royal Australian Navy did not, and still does not, have the capability to search for a vessel of Centaur’s size.”
However they had a certain fix on its location due to the distance from the Second Officer Rippon’s calculation of the point of sinking, last reported position: 27′ 17′ S, 153’58′ E, about 50 miles east northeast of Brisbane. Maritime historian, Mr Foley believes the Centaur lies within 1800m of the location reported by navigator Gordon Rippon, who took the Centaur’s bearings shortly before the hospital ship was torpedoed by a Japanese submarine at 4.10am on May 14. Mr Rippon, who survived the sinking, was interviewed as part of Foley’s book on the subject. (Co- Author of ‘ Centaur, the Myth of Immunity’ )
“The man was very clear in his thoughts and went on to become head of the Blue Funnel Line navigation school. This guy was obviously no slouch when it came to navigation,” he said.
But that location – about 23 nautical miles east-north-east of Point Lookout – would contradict many eyewitness accounts of Sunshine Coast residents who claim an explosion was visible much closer to Cape Moreton. There are memorials at Point Danger and Caloundra. They were both erected in the belief that the Centaur had sunk off the coastline near the memorials.
On the 60th anniversary of the sinking, 60 Minutes ran a story demonstrating that the wreck was not Centaur. It was revealed that nobody at the Queensland Maritime Museum had yet seen Dennis’ footage, and when it was shown to Museum president Rod McLeod and maritime historian John Foley, they stated that the shipwreck could not be Centaur, as the rudder was incorrectly shaped. Following this story, and others published around the same time in newspapers, the Navy sent three ships to inspect the site over a two month period; HMA Ships Hawkesbury, Melville, and Yarra, before concluding that the shipwreck was incorrectly identified as Centaur.
On 29 June 2003, the Royal Australian Navy announced that investigations by five RAN ships over the previous three months had proven conclusively that the wreckage in 174 metres of water off Moreton Island was not the Centaur. The use of video and sonar images of the wreck by RAN mine-hunters HMAS Yarra, HMAS Hawkesbury and hydrographic ship HMAS Melville showed that the wreck’s hull was only 55 metres long, much shorter than Centaur which was 96 metres long.
An amendment was made to the gazettal, and the Hydrographic Office began to remove the mark from charts. A further report stated, that local divers said, “That the RAN had located the wreck of the Centaur in 1,500 metres of water off Point Lookout on North Stradbroke Island using side scan sonar. They did this search after their other search off Moreton Island but they did not bother to send a submersible down to the wreck to confirm it.
In April 2008, following the successful discovery of HMAS Sydney, several parties began calling for a dedicated search for Centaur. By the end of 2008, the Australian Federal and Queensland State governments had formed a joint committee and contributed $2 million each towards a search, and by February 2009, the tender for the project had received eleven expressions of interest.
In a news report Captain Bruce Kafer, chief hydrographer for the Royal Australian Navy said that the Navy and the media had been carried away by the 1995 claims by Don Dennis of Melbourne, that he had located the Centaur. Captain Kafer claimed that the Navy still did not know where the real location of the Centaur was located.
Yet when the government wanted to find shipping containers which had Ammonium Nitrate they were found and confirmed in a few weeks. So why wait for 65 years to find the Centaur.
The media release went like this.
On March 26, 2009 ,The navy has confirmed the location of 24 of the 31 containers lost from the Pacific Adventurer during Cyclone Hamish.
HMAS Yarra is equipped with sonar technology and will start its search today near the scene of the accident off the northern tip of Moreton Island.
The ship lost 31 containers of ammonium nitrate fertiliser overboard, which ruptured its oil tanks and caused the leakage of 250 tonnes of fuel oil off Moreton Island, near Brisbane.
The containers were identified by the navy’s mine disposal vehicle on the seabed not far from where the containers were reported lost on March 11.
Commander Dean Schopen, commander of the Australian Mine Warfare and Clearance Diving Task Group, said video footage showed 24 containers were lying on the seabed in groups of twos and threes and in varying condition.
The navy believes it may have located most of the containers of fertiliser lost from a cargo ship off southeast Queensland.
“Progress is slow, but (the commanding officer of HMAS Yarra) has identified 21 contacts that … meet the dimensional features we are looking for with regards to these containers,” Navy Commander Dean Schopen said, “Southeasterly winds and strong currents have delayed the launch of remote-controlled search vehicles that operate on the ocean floor at a depth of up to 200 metres. They use low-light television cameras and sonar to identify objects and transmit images back to the search vessel.”
So in the same area of the world within a matter of weeks, in the same bay they can find a 20 foot container that has fallen off the deck of a Container ship but in 65 years, cannot locate and identify a 320 foot long ship. The Premier of Queensland Anna Bligh has stated that as soon as it is found she will declare it a war grave to prevent any further investigation by divers or remote control submersibles. When the Navy is told to find the Centaur, when it finds the Centaur as we know they should, will it tell the truth? Will it say what was in it, will it say that the plates were blown outwards from an internal explosion?
Will this tell us why the Owen Gun Project was cancelled packed up and sent to Lithgow, will this explain why 60,000 Owen guns were never made for the U.S Forces and why Evelyn Owen never received the five shillings each per Owen Gun for guns that should have been made? Before the project sunk with the Centaur.
All to cover up the ‘shiney backsides’ of the High Command that sent a defenceless ship to a watery grave because they wanted to stack Owen Guns and Ammunition below its decks.
Range Officer’s Handbook Review in Guns Australia
Range Officer’s Handbook Review in Guns Australia by Nick Harvey
Book Review – Guns Australia October/December 2009
Hard-bound 200x303mm, 523 pages, well illustrated with line drawings and photographs, index, glossary and list of contents.
The name Ron Owen is well known to the majority of Aussie shooters as an indefatigable fighter for shooter’s rights and as a firearms retailer and importer.
Ron Owen has a comprehensive background in the shooting sports starting in England when he was 12 years old. He joined the British regular army at 15 and competed in the regimental rifle team at Bisley and Pirbright. By 1967 he had settled in Victoria and was a founding member of the Bonang Branch of the SSAA. Ron has shot every different discipline on ranges in many countries around the world, reaching A grade in National competitions and coached shooters who competed in the Commonwealth Games. After 49 years in the shooting industry, with those credentials and a background like this, who better to write a firearm textbook!
The Range Officers Handbook is an omnibus of firearms and ammunition and their use. The author has condensed a tremendous amount of information into this volume’s pages. The book is a neat and handy compilation of reference data that any technically oriented gun enthusiast will want in his library. You name it and it’s got it – everything about rifles, handguns, scopes, handloading and air arms history and use – and much more.
Did I learn anything? Yes I did, and I’m sure you will too as it contains lots of sound advice about every facet of the art and science of firearms, shooting techniques, and just about everything there is to know about firearms Ron Owen’s book comes as close to being all inclusive as any I’ve seen.
It has:
90 pages of information for Range Officers
239 pages on Coaching to Win
110 pages on Air Rifle History and Training
33 pages on Hitting Clay Targets
34 pages on Reloading Ammunition
34 pages of old into new, (Chronological history of firearms)
23 pages of glossary of terminology on firearms and Optics
Over 1000 drawings and photographs.
The retail price of the book is $75, and the book can be obtained from the QIARA office at 24 McMahon Rd, Gympie 4570. Trade and club prices on application. You can also order by phone on (07) 5482 5070.
Australia Wide Postage is an additional $10.00 as the book weighs over 2 kg.
Owen Gun Goes to Sea? Part 5
This is another draft chapter from the Owen Gun Book, the finished chapters will be printed in the book. These electronic chapters are from a different part of the book and will keep changing (growing I hope) with the contributions and discovery of further information. If you have any information to contribute or criticisms please email owenguns@spiderweb.com.au as none of these articles are finalised. Ron Owen
Why Did the Submarine Captain want to Sink an Empty Ship?
The later official Japanese War history published in 1979 admits ‘The Centaur had been hit by a torpedo fired from Submarine 1-177 commanded by Lieutenant Commander Nakagawa. The sinking seems to have been Nakagawa’s decision as commander and not the result of any official policy. Later in the Indian Ocean Nakagawa fired on the survivors from a British merchantman. For this, and other incidents, he was tried as a B Class war criminal and spent four years in prison. At the War Crime trials the sinking of the Centaur was not raised in evidence against him.
Submarine Captain Nakagwa,he does not look like a happy chappy. Did he know that the Centaur was not an empty Hospital Ship?
Why? Was the Centaur Sinking not raised at his trial?
“At his trial the sinking of the Centaur was not raised.” This is unbelievable, even if the Australian Government did not have enough evidence to get a conviction one would think that as he had been captured and on trial under oath and the prosecution fully aware of the complete movements of Lieutenant Nakagawa and the Submarine 1-177 that they would try to get collaborative evidence of his Criminality and use the sinking of the Centaur against him. Why have an official ‘War Crimes’ inquiry in Melbourne in 1944 with a finding that the sinking was in breach of the Hague Conventions then not mention this sinking of a Hospital Ship when he is brought to trial. Fellow officers praised Nakagawa as a professional sailor who would never knowingly have attacked a protected hospital ship. Nakagawa himself has never commented on the event. It is worth mentioning that eight months previously Japanese surface ships had trained their searchlights on the hospital ship Manunda at Milne Bay. The Manunda was similarly marked and illuminated to the Centaur and she was not fired on.
What was the difference between the Manunda and the Centaur both were marked in the same way as the Centaur. Was the Centaur a recognised target?
Some Parts of the Ship was Found Only to Be Lost Again! Twice?
Sergeant Chris Bond (later WOII with BCOF and in Korea) was a hygeine inspector with the Australian Army Hygeine Service and was based on Moreton Island. His major role was in malaria prevention by finding breeding grounds of the Anopheles mosquito.
Jim Bond, son of Sergeant Chris Bond. Relates the story and supplies a photograph.
A capable horseman with experience pre-war in the 5th Light Horse, he was issued with a horse and from his base at Cowan. He covered all the area of Moreton Island on a week long patrol.
He related to his family that some days after the “Centaur” was sunk part of the name-board of the “Centaur” was washed up on the shore of Moreton Island. He recovered it and handed it in to the unit office at Cowan.
Sgt Chris Bond with the Ships name Board. Found on the Beach.
Some weeks later he went to the carpenters shop to get timber to repair a sullage pit and the name-board was on the woodheap. He was told that he could use it.
My father wrapped the name-board in hessian and on his next leave pass to the mainland, brought the name-board to our home in Brisbane. Here it was hidden away.
After the war the Australian Red Cross held a “Centaur” Fair at the Kelvin Grove Army barracks and here my father handed over the name-board for proper recognition.
His son Jim Bond asks. ‘Where it is now I do not know but with May 14 on our doorstep it would be fitting that the name-board could feature in remembrance services on that day.’
The Army of course has lost it again, one would wonder why they want to lose absolutely everything to do with the Centaur? Accept the publicity campaign of its sinking.
However it proves conclusively that wreckage from the Centaur was washed up on Queenslands beaches which supports further information yet to be given.
What’s the Australian Hospital Ship Centaur got to do with the Owen Gun, or the Owen Gun project? I can hear the readers asking.
During the research for this book which is somewhat a team effort, we have been very busy taking photographs of Owen Guns of all models, shapes and sizes in collections and museums Australia wide. I happened to take a several hundred photographs of an Owen Gun Mk1. It had an all over corrosive patina where heavy corrosion had removed the original external surface. Inside all surfaces were perfect.
Almost unfired, deep, unworn rifling, though a little dirt on the oil.
The barrel was perfect, the trigger pack still showed the remains of the packing grease. The bolt was almost brand new showing some of the original flame browned finish. The magazine externally was corroded and in two small places it was nearly all the way through the metal. Inside the magazine was as clean as a whistle and the magazine spring had not been touched by the rust.
The Owen gun with the Salt Water Finnish.
As I began to photograph it, my mind remembered that there were rumours of Owen Guns being dumped at sea by the Australian Stores in the early 1970s and there were stories that Owen Guns had been found in Trawler nets off the coast from Bribie Island, Queensland. Some years ago I was shown some sub sections of Owen Guns, very corroded, totally inert that the fishermen said they had found in there trawler nets off the coast of Redcliffe.
I had also read stories of Owen Guns being dumped in the Hume Weir as the Army was disposing them from the strategic reserve in the early 1970s. This raised a few questions as they would have been dumping used or old guns, not new guns, this bothered me as the one corroded one I photographed was not a firearm that had been in service from the early 1940s until the late 1960s, that’s twenty years of military hard work. Why would they throw this one overboard? It must have been brand new when it hit the water?
What stories could it tell if it could speak, Where did it go between Port Kembla and Bribie Island?
I mentioned this particular Owen Gun to a friend of mine, during a telephone conversation to Mr Ian Skennerton, the author of ‘100 years of Australian Service Machine Guns’, ‘The Lee Enfield’ and many more books on Military firearms. Ian asked if this one had the additional safety catch fitted to the rear of the receiver? This modification was carried out during the FTR (Factory Thorough Repair) programme in the late 1940s to all Owen Guns in service at that time. So we both concluded that this one had gone into the ‘briny’ prior to the modification and many years before they were being taken out of service and disposed in the 1970s and 80s. He then asked if it had the Butt with it and I answered in the negative. He then said, “Well it must be one of the Owen Guns that came off the ‘Centaur’. I said, “well that would explain the regular stories of trawlers pulling Owen Guns and parts of Owen Guns out their fishing nets off the shores at Redcliffe as the Centaur was sunk in that area in 1943.”
Treasure on the Beach
He then told me about his father in law Ron Dawson who lived in Caloundra, who had found cases of Owen Guns that had been washed up on Bribie Island beaches a few days after the ‘Centaur’ was sunk. Ron Dawson knowing that Ian was a Military Firearm enthusiast/writer had related this to him in the late 1980s when Ian was researching his book that was printed in 1989 the ‘100 years of Australian Service Machine Guns. I then queried (I’m known for always being a doubting Thomas) but if they were in cases they would have been in the hold and would still be there. “No” said Ian, “The Centaur was blown open as it was a huge torpedo and the Hospital Ship was only just over 300 ft long, it broke in half and sunk straight away.” I replied with, “Well the wooden cases would be sealed and hold air. They would float like a boat even if they did not float above the surface they would float below the surface and could quite possibly be washed up on the coast.” If the wooden cases had some salt water in them that would explain why this exhibit is only corroded on the outer surface when they are new and packed at the factory. They are solidly packed with thick grease which needs an armoury de-greasing process before they are issued. I have Owen Gun magazines which are solidly packed in stiff brown grease. Maybe as grease floats on water, the grease in the cases would provide more displacement and this would assist the flotation of the cases. (That might be clutching at straws)
Another view of the nautical Owen Gun
So this inspired me to investigate the sinking of the AHS Centaur and ask the question, why would a Captain of a Japanese Submarine who only had 8 Torpedoes when he left Japan five thousand miles away, waste one of them on what he would consider an empty hospital ship that was lit up like a Christmas Tree. Why would he not wait for a large ship heavily ladened with supplies or soldiers on route to fight his countrymen in New Guinea? The simple answer to that is that any experienced Submariner never mind a ‘Commodore’ would be able to look through the periscope at 1500 metres and immediately know by its displacement and how high it is from the water mark (Plimsoll line) if it was loaded or not. As soon as he established that it was supposed to be an empty Hospital Ship travelling to New Guinea to pick up a cargo of sick and wounded Australian soldiers. Yet in reality he was looking at a ship that was fully loaded and low in the water with cargo. He knew then he could morally and legally sink it. He would consider it was his duty to sink it. The Ship was lit up like a Christmas tree and with a full moon that night he could not have been mistaken about the Centaurs Hospital ship condition, either way he would have known, was it a fully loaded hospital ship with guns and men or was it unloaded empty hospital ship. If it was an empty ship he would not have wasted a torpedo, he would have waited for the next one coming and there was no shortage.
The optics in the periscope would have been the best that the world could produce at that time, on a moon-lit night with the ship itself flood lit, it cold not have been a mistake.
Japanese ships did not have any radar, so they compensated the best way they could by paying more attention to the optical ability. The Japanese optical industry improved and was superior to all others due to this lack of radar, and the Japanese optical industry in binoculars, telescopic rifle scopes, and cameras succeeded against all competitors after World War Two aiding in its post war recovery due to the necessity of producing advanced optics.
After some preliminary research I found my way back to Ian Skennerton’s, 100 years of Australian Service Machine Guns. I say found my way back to it as I have had a copy for ten years or more and would have read it the first time in the early 1990s. On my second read as there was now much more purpose to it, I found something I had at first overlooked. At the bottom paragraph of page 67, Ian states,
“Owen’s generally replaced the Thompson’s in New Guinea from December 1942 and quantities of Austen’s were also shipped. Reports of disfavour with the Austen were forthcoming from combat areas soon after and a certain amount of manipulation by the Army management. As high as the top command and General Blamey, in favour of the Austen becomes apparent on researching Secret Army telexes and communications. Another interesting note in these secret orders is that the (on page 69) “Centaur” was carrying Owen Guns and 9mm ammunition from the east coast ports to New Guinea in late 1942. It was commissioned as a hospital ship early in 1943 and then sunk by a Japanese submarine off Cape Moreton on the 14th of May the same year. The controversy on whether she was running guns under the cover of Red Cross status is still a topic of discussion.”
Was there two Ships called the “Centaur“
Both operating from the eastern ports of Australia in 1943.
After reading this I realised that Ian must have forgotten more of this story during the last twenty years since he researched and wrote this so I phoned him again and reminded him of the paragraph and asked him what was in these secret orders that let him know that the “Centaur” was carrying Owen Guns. That must have done the memory trick as immediately he said, “Oh the telex”. “What telex .” “You didn’t mention a telex the other day.” “I must have forgot.” Ian said. “I found it when I was doing that research, I have a copy of it still, I will find it.” “No problem”, I said “but what did it say?” Oh, it said, ‘SS Centaur to proceed to Port Kembla to load Owen Guns 7th May 1943, sail same day to Sydney to load 9mm Ammunition. Depart Sydney 12th May 1943 dated April 1943″. I said, “well that’s it” “that clinches it”. Then Ian pointed out that the Teleprinter had ‘SS Centaur’ and not “AHS Centaur”, ‘but there is hardly likely that there are two with the same name and the prefix to the name would have only changed a month before the Telex was sent’. ‘Yes’ It would have been embarrassing for the writer to put AHS standing for Australian Hospital Ship and then order it to be loaded with Owen Guns and ammo. Maybe he wanted to leave himself a way out, or it would draw a lot less attention with SS, (Steam Ship) ‘Centaur’, instead of Hospital Ship. Ian promised to find the telex when he gets back from his next overseas trip. (That will then be added to this article. )
Many other besides me have wondered if the Port Kembla ” Iron Stone” is a code name for Owen Guns”.
Why Were They So Quick to Close The Owen Gun Project?
Going back to April 1943, the Australian High Command could have found themselves in the middle of another political minefield. In April the Prime Minister, Mr. John Curtin, ” expressed great concern and said that the matter would be decided by the War Cabinet at a meeting in the next few days. Then on the facts, Cabinet reversed the decision and acknowledged the Owen Gun as the standard submachine gun for the Australian Forces. Then Two further orders, each for five thousand (5,000) guns, were later placed with Lysaght’s but that was in April, but by May they had to spend money in a huge war propaganda campaign to paint the Japanese as demons for sinking the ‘Centaur’. That would all have been for nothing as their bodies and their careers would have been hung out to dry if it had come out that the Centaur was loaded with Owen Guns and 9 mm ammunition. Was that the reason that Lysaght’s received no more orders after May 1943. Was the Centaur the reason the Owen Gun project was cancelled? Was that the reason why thousands of Australian troops had to make do with inferior products or none at all.
All that was in front of the Australian High Command. They did not know anything about an atomic bomb, no one did. The Australian’s were still fighting the Japs in New Guinea in 1943. In 1943 there was fear about yesterday, fear about today and fear about tomorrow. Nothing was certain and everyone knew the war had a long way to run, before our lads got to Tokyo. The Americans had ordered 60,000 Owen Guns just for its Pacific forces. The Canadians had tested the Owen Gun and found it the best in all tested. The British that were still making 20,000 Sten Guns per week in one factory at Fazakerley in Lancashire and carried on making them until September 1945 making over two million in total. The British had tested all types and the Owen Gun had come out the best in all classes of tests.
Why did they continue to make an inferior product in vast quantities when by 1943 they had established that the Owen Gun was the best? Who put them off from accepting the Owen Gun?
Was it that the John Lysaght factory, which was only a hundred yards from the dock, that had the ability of loading its Owen Guns directly onto the ships that took them to the battlefield had to be packed up, and closed to prevent any uncontrolled investigation into the Centaur sinking?
To stop ordering the most sort after sub machine gun of World War Two in May 1943 when even in January 1945 the three Allied Powers Russia, USA and Great Britain were convinced that the war would not end until 1946 or 1947 and that they would have to accept a million Allied Casualties in the invasion of the Japan main islands and that invasion would take at least a year.
Yet the Australian High Command stopped ordering in May 1943 and had the factory closed up by September 1944?
Owen Gun goes to Sea Part 4 ?
This is another draft chapter from the Owen Gun Book, the finished chapters will be printed in the book. These electronic chapters are from a different part of the book and will keep changing (growing I hope) with the contributions and discovery of further information. If you have any information to contribute or criticisms please email owenguns@spiderweb.com.au as none of these articles are finalised. Ron Owen
Stain Glass Window to commemorate those who lost their lives in the sinking of the Centaur.
Following Japan’s entry into World War II, it became clear that the three hospital ships currently serving Australia—Manunda, Wanganella, and Oranje—would not be able to operate in the shallow waters typical of Maritime South East Asia, so a new hospital ship would be required. Of the Australian Merchant Navy vessels able to operate in this region, none were suitable for conversion to a hospital ship, and a request to the British Ministry of Shipping placed Centaur at the disposal of the Australian military on 4 January 1943. The conversion work began on 9 January and Centaur was commissioned as an Australian Hospital Ship on 1st March. Data on the ship’s identifying markings and the layout of features such as funnel and masts was provided to the International Committee of the Red Cross during the first week of February 1943, who passed this on to the Japanese on 5th of February. This information was also circulated and promoted by the press and media.
The Centaur pre her Hospital ship refit.
At the beginning of 1943, Centaur was placed at the disposal of the Australian Department of Defence for conversion to a hospital ship. The conversion was performed by United Ship Services in Melbourne. During her conversion, Centaur was painted with the markings of a hospital ship as detailed in Article 5 of the 10th section of the Hague Convention of 1907; white hull with a green band interspersed by three red crosses on each flank of the hull, white superstructure, multiple large red crosses positioned so that the ship’s status would be visible from both sea and air, and the identification number 47 on her bows. At night, the markings were illuminated by a combination of internal and external lights.
The early stages of Centaur’s first voyage as a hospital ship were test and transport runs; the initial run from Melbourne to Sydney resulted in the Master, Chief Engineer, and Chief Medical Officer composing a long list of defects requiring attention. It is reported that, to maintain the ship’s mean draught of 6.1 metres (20 ft), 900 kilograms (2,000 lb) of ironstone were distributed through the cargo holds as ballast. The ship was diverted to Port Kembla to load the ballast. What difference less than a ton of ballast would make to a ship of this size is a very important question and why call in at Port Kembla to only load 2000 pound (900kg) it might change the height in the back of a 4 wheel drive but would not make any difference to a ship of a Gross 2469 tons and over 300 ft long.
The Centaur after her transformation to a Hospital Ship.
Following repairs, she conducted a test run, transporting wounded servicemen from Townsville to Brisbane to ensure that she was capable of fulfilling the role of a medical vessel. Arriving in Sydney on 8 May 1943, Centaur was re-provisioned at Darling Harbour, before departing for Cairns, Queensland on 12 May 1943. From there, her destination was again New Guinea. On board at the time were 74 crew, 8 Army officers, 12 female Army nurses, 45 other Army personnel, 192 soldiers from the 2/12th Field Ambulance, and 1 Torres Strait ship pilot. Most of the female nurses had transferred from the hospital ship Oranje, while the male Army personnel assigned to the ship aboard were all medical staff. During the loading process there was an incident when the ambulance drivers attached to the 2/12th attempted to bring their rifles and personal supplies of ammunition aboard. The story is, that this met with disapproval from Centaur’s Master and Chief Medical Officer, and raised concerns amongst the crew and wharf labourers that Centaur would be transporting military supplies or commandos to New Guinea: the rifles were not allowed onboard until Centaur’s Master received official reassurance that the ambulance drivers were allowed to carry weapons under the Hague Convention (specifically Article 8), as they were used “for the maintenance of order and the defence of the wounded.”
Note para 6 Col English is a survivor. Yet he is missing from the Ships Embarkation list and the ships final list of of survivors. The list gets changed by the Government and every time another 20 men go namelessly missing. What happened to Col English?
Was the attack by the Captain of the Japanese Submarine on the Centaur justified, or was it an inexcusable war crime? The Japanese Army and to a lesser extent the Air Force were known for their disregard of the Conventions and prisoners of war, but the Navy had a much better reputation. If the Centaur had broken the Hague or Geneva Conventions by carrying prohibited personnel or armaments and the Japanese knew about this, then the Centaur was a legitimate war target. If it did not carry those prohibited people or armaments, or if it did but the Japanese did not know about it, then it must be considered a protected vessel. German Submarines sank and attacked many British Hospital Ships in World War One, such as the Britannic and the Olympic (both sister ships of the Titanic). In every instance they blamed the British for using them for carrying soldiers and munitions. To send them unprotected was always a calculated risk for the Government but they did not have to sail in them.
Again Col English is first on the USS Mugford survivor list. Why was he missing on the final list. Why was he missing from the Ships Embarkation list? What happened to the Colonels men?
Was the Centaur carrying forbidden personnel or weapons?
The Centaur was loaded in Sydney on 10 May to sail to Cairns, and then on to Port Moresby in Papua to then bring back wounded from the battles of Buna, Gona and Sanananda. During the War the Japanese would not acknowledge responsibility for the sinking. However, at the time, and since, there have been articles and stories that it was loaded in a way that was in breach of the Hague and Geneva Conventions and which would have made it a legitimate war target.
There was no problem with the new crew of merchant seamen (civilians who had signed up for six months at a time to run the ship), or the medical staff (doctors and orderlies from the Royal Australian Army Medical Corps, and nurses from the Australian Army Nursing Service). There was, however, some doubt about the loading of the members of the 2/12th Field Ambulance unit bound for New Guinea. A field ambulance unit’s role was to provide front-line medical support to the fighting troops. They were non-combatants, but ambulance drivers could carry personal weapons to protect their vehicle and the wounded they were carrying in an emergency situation.
These are the two pages which list the 64 survivors. Where is Col English in this list. Where did they lose him??
When this unit arrived at the dock to board, the ambulance drivers were carrying 52 rifles and 2000 rounds of ammunition personal weapons allowed for the protection of their ambulance vehicles. The captain of the ship supposedly questioned the legality of those weapons under the Conventions, but was satisfied that they were acceptable, provided that they were stored in the cargo hold for the trip.
What else was in the cargo hold?
There were many rumours at the time that there were automatic weapons hidden on the ship, that spies could have learned of these ‘breaches’ and contacted Japan. A 1944 War Crimes inquiry did not investigate any breaches by the Centaur of the Hague Conventions with its personnel and cargo, it only took evidence on the sinking by a Japanese Submarine and stated that this was a contravention of the Hague conventions. Over the years survivors have claimed that these breaches were real and factual and that the Australian High Command were fully aware of the chance they were taking with other peoples lives..
An Army file in the Australian Archives contains a report of comments allegedly made by a pro-Japanese Red Cross representative that he knew positively that the Centaur was carrying personnel and equipment in contravention of the Red Cross conventions, and that this was known to the Japanese.
Radiographer Sgt Dick Metcalf helped store weapons aboard the Centaur. Yet now says, these weapons were the .303 rifles of ambulance drivers, permitted under the Convention. He reported that there were 4,000 rounds of ammunition not 2000 for the rifles. Either way 4000 or 2000 its not very much only a couple of cases. Sgt Metcalf would not have known what was stored in the four cargo holds and would only have given evidence on what he personally saw and what firearms his Field Ambulance unit had on board.
Sgt Dick Metcalf said, “There were no Commandos, bombs or Bren guns. ‘Captain Hindmarsh told me to put the rifles in the bottom of number one hold, between the mattresses, to avoid any chance of trouble and that’s where they are to this day. But in wartime rumours are rife.’ When your in the Army, you know the men in your company or unit, you may even know some men in your regiment, but when you embark on board a ship or train, with other troops, you have no way of knowing whose who, or where they are from within a day and a half. Commandos could be crew members or other members of another unit. Even if you asked them, they more than likely would not tell you. It takes time, and Sgt Dick Metcalf would not have had time to investigate in the day and a half between Sydney and when the Ship sank. He made no comment and was not asked what was in the other 3 cargo holds, his unit of 192 men only had 8 tons of equipment on board.
Why between mattresses, one might ask?
In August 1988 a member of the 2/15th Australian Field Company (Engineers) told a magazine reporter that he had helped load ammunition on the Centaur. He said soldiers worked through the night loading the ship ‘almost to the gunnels’ with cases of ammunition, rifles and machine guns.
One of the above claims could be shown to be probably mistaken, but the existence of a secret file concerning the Centaur held in the Australian Archives, not to be opened until 100 years after the sinking, has provided much more fuel for this continued doubt and suspicion. The Archives that are available raise far more questions than they answer, in fact they do not answer any questions. Here are just a few.
Australian Archives
MP 1185/8 Department CA 2456, Navy Office (III) to 1939: CA 38, Navy (II), Navy Office (III): Secret and Confidential Correspondence Files Multiple Number Series, 1923-1950
file: 2026/13/1858 “Sinking of Hospital Ship ‘Centaur’.”
04)Memorandum (ref. 031814) 16 May ’43 from F. G. Cummins, Secretary, Dept. Navy, Melbourne to Secretary, Defence Dept. – Ref. 031812 report of sinking and rescue by Mugford including list of survivors – a Col. English AAMC is mentioned.
(This supports the story of the extra 20 ‘Commando’s’ or personnel on board as it noticed that the revised figures issued which are short of 20 personnel specifically states that the NON COMBATANTS are 322 and the previous number of ships complement was 352. Why was Col English not on the embarkation list and missing from the list of Survivors. Did they put him back in the water with nineteen other men or was there more unlisted survivors?)
08)Minute Paper 16 May ’43 Hospital Ship “Centaur”: Additional Report from S.O.(I) (Staff Officer – Intelligence) Brisbane Report. Master chose route of own making rather than the assigned Green Route. (Dept. of Navy 2026/13/1653)
13)Navy message (17 May ’43 T.O.O. 171811Z) To Admiralty A.C.N.B. from B.A.D. Washington – From First Sea Lord…Chiefs of Staff…are of opinion that every means should be taken to suppress publication of this as a temporary measure. (2) Request you do all you can to prevent publication. (Passed to Com 7th. Fleet). (Dept. of Navy 2026/13/1653)
Every Means To Suppress the Publication of the Circumstances. Why?
Why or what had to be suppressed and prevented from publication? The Chiefs of Staff were hot to keep something very quite.
Owen Gun Goes To Sea ? Part 3
This is another draft chapter from the Owen Gun Book, the finished chapters will be printed in the book. These electronic chapters are from a different part of the book and will keep changing (growing I hope) with the contributions and discovery of further information. If you have any information to contribute or criticisms please email owenguns@spiderweb.com.au as none of these articles are finalised. Ron Owen
The Owen Gun and The Centaur.
The Sinking.
At approximately 4:10 a.m. on 14 May 1943, while on her second real voyage after completing testing the AHS (Australian Hospital Ship) Centaur was bound from Sydney to Port Moresby, Centaur was torpedoed by an unknown and unsighted submarine. The torpedo struck the portside oil fuel tank approximately two metres below the waterline, creating a hole 8 to 10 metres (26 to 33 ft) across, igniting the fuel, and setting the ship on fire from the bridge aft. Many of those onboard were immediately killed by concussion or burned to death. Centaur quickly took on water through the impact site, rolled to port, then began to sink bow-first in several hundred metres of water, submerging completely in less than three minutes. The rapid sinking prevented the deployment of lifeboats, although two broke off from Centaur as she sank, along with several damaged life rafts.
Map of the approximate sinking, showing where items were washed up on the beaches.
Centaur is recorded to have sunk at a point approximately 24 nautical miles (44 km) east-northeast of Point Lookout, North Stradbroke Island, Queensland. This position was extrapolated from the dead reckoning position calculated at 4:00 a.m. by Second Officer Richard G. Rippon at the end of his watch, and taking into consideration Centaur’s course and estimated speed at the time of the attack.
Seaman Matthew Morris remembers:
I finished the twelve to four watch and I called the four to eight watch to go down, including me mate. And I was just havin’ a cup of tea – and this big explosion, and the ship gave a shudder, and the skylight fell in on us. And I don’t really know how I got out of the mess room … and I’d say there was a dozen steps up to the deck. And I really can’t remember going up them. But then I was washed off the back of the ship and then I realised I was in the water.
At 4.10am, a crewman was watching a school of porpoises that had joined the ship, when he noticed a long thin line of foam heading towards the side of the ship. Seconds later, the torpedo struck the Centaur near the engine room and the main oil bunker tanks.
The bunkers exploded. Men not killed instantly by the first blast were incinerated moments later. Many who survived the blast and the flame were killed by flying wreckage or drowned. Panicked people had to wake, grab their life jackets, and find their way up on to the deck, through bodies, water, wreckage and fire. In three minutes the ship sank.
Japanese Model 95 Torpedo nearly as long as the Centaur was wide. Why would the Captain of the submarine use one of his 8 to sink the Centaur when he could have surfaced and sunk the Hospital Ship with his deck gun.
Once on deck they found that the lifeboats and rafts were damaged or unable to be cut free quickly. Many who made it to the decks could not swim, and drowned. Others were sucked under as the ship sank.
All were now covered in thick oil. Survivors, many with broken limbs, burns or internal injuries, now tried to find wreckage to support them. Some clinging to wreckage were taken by sharks. And, to the horror of the survivors, the submarine now surfaced in the dark.
The Survivors
Sister Ellen Savage was asleep in her bunk when the Centaur collapsed around her, she stated
Merle Morton and myself were awakened by two terrific explosions and practically thrown out of bed …I registered mentally that it was a torpedo explosion … In that instant the ship was in flames … we ran into Colonel Manson, our commanding officer, in full dress even to his cap and ‘Mae West’ life-jacket, who kindly said ‘That’s right girlies, jump for it now.’ The first words I spoke was to say ‘Will I have time to go back for my great-coat?’ as we were only in our pyjamas. He said ‘No’ and with that climbed the deck and jumped and I followed … the ship was commencing to go down. It all happened in three minutes.
The suction of the sinking Centaur dragged Sister Savage down into a whirlpool of moving metal and wood. Here her ribs, nose and palate were broken, her ear drums perforated and she sustained multiple bruising. Then she was propelled to the surface in the middle of an oil slick.
Years later Seaman Morris recalled that the Centaur sank quickly. Morris found himself alone in the water, eyes full of salt and oil. He found a small raft and then spotted his mate, Bobbie Teenie, whom he hauled aboard. In their loneliness and fear he remembers they made a great fuss of each other. As day dawned they spotted a bigger raft on the horizon and pulled over to it as their own was slowly sinking. Sister Savage had also found her way to this bigger raft.
This larger raft was part of the Centaur’s wheel house. The senior surviving officer, Second Officer Rippon, encouraged all those clinging to smaller rafts and debris to make for this so called ‘survival island’. Little food and water was available; many, including Sister Savage, were lightly dressed; and medical supplies for the injured were non existent.
So, huddled together, the survivors spent the daylight hours of Friday 14 May. In this crisis individual examples engendered optimism and hope. Seaman Morris led them in vigorous singing of ‘Roll Out The Barrel’ and ‘Waltzing Matilda’.
Captain Salt, a Torres Strait pilot, despite his severe burns, kept assuring everyone that rescue must be on the way. Lieutenant Colonel Outridge and Sister Savage did what they could for the wounded. Sharks circled them and occasionally nosed the rafts.
Sister Ellen Savage GM after her ordeal.
On the raft Seaman Morris was crammed up next to the badly burned Private Walder. Morris recalls Walder’s death:
He’d died next to me and his burns just stuck on my arm … And I said to Sister Savage who was practically opposite me, I said: ‘I think this young chap’s dead’. And she said: ‘Are you sure’. And I said: ‘Well, I’m pretty sure’. As she felt over she said: ‘He’s passed on’. So I took his identification disc off him and his name was John Walder, New South Wales army man. I gave his identification disc to Sister Savage and she said: ‘Will you answer the Rosary?’. And I said: ‘Yes, I’ll do my best’.
She said the Rosary and I answered it and we buried him at sea.
Seaman Martin Pash remembered that the Centaur “just went straight down. There was no noise or anything – a lot of people calling out, the nurses and all … The deck boy brought Sister Savage on. She had a fractured jaw. You wouldn’t think there was anything wrong with her but she suffered very badly. She had broken ribs and [was] bruised and one of the fellas gave her his overcoat to put over her.”
Despite her own injuries, 30-year-old Sister Ellen Savage nursed the wounded and boosted the morale of the others. The other eleven nurses all died. After a day and a half adrift on life rafts, the 64 survivors were spotted by an RAAF Anson and recovered by the destroyer USS Mugford.
Corporal Maurice Peter Thomas (VX64840) a member of the medical staff of AHS Centaur escaped from the sinking ship and managed to locate a piece of planking at Daybreak.
Corporal Thomas and Privates Jones and Private Mc Cosker, and Privates Taylor and three of the ships crew all clambered on this piece of planking. They spent all day on the planking. Between midnight and daybreak the next day (Saturday) they heard the sound of engines about 3/4 mile away. Two emergency flares were lit by some survivors on two rafts. They could not see anything. A crew member of Centaur indicated that it was a submarine engine that they could hear. He instructed the survivors on the rafts to extinguish the flares. The engines stopped soon after this.
Second officer, Mr R. G. Rippon, indicated that he had heard the engines of a surfaced submarine between mid-night and 4 a.m. on 15 May 1943.
This is the sister ship KD7 Kaida Class Number 176 in the same class as the submarine Number 177 that more than likely sunk the Centaur.
Several survivors later claimed to have heard the attacking submarine moving on the surface while they were adrift, and the submarine was seen by Able Seaman J. Cecich and Seamen’s Cook F. Martin indicated that they had also sighted the submarine. Francis Martin, the ships cook who was floating alone on a hatch cover, out of sight from the main cluster of survivors, described the submarine to Naval Intelligence following the survivors’ return to land; his description matched the profile of a KD7 type Kaidai class submarine of the Imperial Japanese Navy. Francis Martin related, “They fell silent, and waited for the expected machine-gunning to start – but the submarine soon submerged.
Then began the second stage of the horrific experience – trying to survive in the ocean until rescue came.” I am sitting, hunched on a Carley float, huddled against a shivering companion.” he said. “What was it?” says a voice. “Bloody Japs, a torpedo,” says someone. Not a bloody hope. God knows how I got out! When dawn breaks there are heavy clouds and we look about. Another Carley float is about 50 yards (50m) away with more figures, so we paddle with broken boards to get together. Someone throws a rope and we tie about 20 feet (6m) apart.
In the daylight, I recognise Nell Savage, the only nurse to survive from the 12 on the ship. Nell is looking after the 15-year-old ship’s cabin boy.
My mate next to me is naked and shivering so I give him my jacket. We’re not cold, just all very shocked. Many are injured and burned, one has large pieces of wood through his arms and Nell says: “Don’t try to take them out, or he might bleed badly.”
So we sit through the day – still thick overcast. We hear planes but all are above the clouds, and finally night falls.
Morning, still overcast, and we realise we have visitors. Sharks – as far down as we can see more and more! One circles each raft and rubs his back on the rope between; no wonder we’ve lost nearly 300 mates.”
The survivors spent 36 hours in the water, using barrels, wreckage, and the two damaged lifeboats for flotation. During this time, they drifted approximately 19.6 nautical miles (36.3 km) north east of Centaur’s calculated point of sinking and spread out over an area of 2 nautical miles (3.7 km). At least four ships and several aircraft were seen by the survivors, but their attention was not attracted.
So quickly had the Centaur sunk that no SOS message was sent. Of the finally claimed 332 who had sailed from Sydney only 64 were found clinging to rafts and debris. The 2/12th Field Ambulance had virtually been wiped out. Sister Savage was the only nurse to survive. For her inspiring example on the raft she was awarded the George Medal.
The initial public reaction to the attack on Centaur was one of outrage, significantly different to that displayed following the loss of Australian warships or merchant vessels. As a hospital ship, the attack was a breach of the tenth section of the Hague Convention of 1907, and as such was a war crime. The Australian Government delivered an official protest to Japan over the incident, but never brought charges against the captain of the submarine, when he was being tried for other war crimes.. The sinking of Centaur drew strong reactions from both Prime Minister Curtin and General Douglas MacArthur.
The Politics and Propaganda.
In the Prime Minister John Curtin address to Parliament he said,
The Prime Minister of Australia at that time John Curtin.
“It is with the deepest regret that the Commonwealth Government has learned of the loss of the Australian hospital ship “Centaur” and I know that the news will come also as a profound shock to the Australian people. The attack which took place within a few miles of the Queensland coast bears all the marks of wantonness and deliberation. Not only will it stir our people into a more acute realisation of the type of enemy against whom we are fighting, but I am confident also that this deed will shock the conscience of the whole civilised world and demonstrate to all who may have had any lingering doubts the unscrupulous and barbarous methods by which the Japanese conduct warfare.
To the next-of-kin of those who are lost the Government and nation extend heartfelt sympathy, which is the deeper since those persons were non-combatants engaged on an errand of mercy, and were by all the laws of warfare immune from attack.
Curtin also stated that the sinking was “an entirely inexcusable act, undertaken in violation of the convention to which Japan is a party and of all the principles of common humanity.”, while MacArthur reflected the common Australian view when he stated that the sinking was an example of Japanese “limitless savagery”.
Politicians urged the public to use their rage to fuel the war effort, and Centaur became a symbol of Australia’s determination to defeat what appeared to be a brutal and uncompromising enemy. The Australian Government produced posters depicting the sinking, which called for Australians to “Avenge the Nurses” by working to produce material, purchasing war bonds, or enlisting in the armed forces.
One of the Posters distributed after the sinking.
With some people unable to believe that the Japanese would be so ruthless, rumours began to spread almost immediately after news of the attack was made public. The most common rumour which was aired in the Smiths Weekly was that Centaur had been carrying munitions and soldiers at the time of her sinking, with the Japanese made aware of this prior to her departure. This may have stemmed from the incident involving the ambulance drivers’ weapons during loading in Sydney or it could have been what was placed in the lower deck holds prior to the ship docking at Sydney.
Owen Gun Goes to Sea ? Part 2
The Commander-in-Chief’s Decision, Blame Blamey.
It would have been ordinary Military procedure for a decision to have been made by the Master General of Ordnance Branch on the type of guns to be produced. Probably as a result of the background of controversy and politics, it was decided that the decision should be made by the Commander-in-Chief, General Blamey, and all relevant information enabling him to arrive at his decision was to be furnished to him.
It would appear that about the end of February 1943, General Blamey advised the Cabinet that he did require additional supplies of submachine guns, that he could equally well use the Austen or the Owen, and as the Austen was much cheaper than the Owen he saw no reason for the Army to purchase the more expensive gun.
General Blamey, telling the troops that he lives on the same rations as they do, attempting to improve his P.R. and not look like a crooked Victorian Commissioner of Police, which was his last job, before they got sick of him.
Of course the men on the ground at the sharp end of it all disagreed completely but the only voice they had was when a letter sent to family members praising the Owen Gun and crying out desperately for more of them, were sent on and printed mainly anonymously in the local newspapers. Luckily there were enough of those letters printed to supply a large political counter weight to the politicians and generals, it is rare that the people are so well informed.
Once the politicians antenna feel public back lash like all insects they retreat into their hiding holes. So much so that eventually soldiers letters on the Owen Gun subject were censored and any further mentions were removed. That still left ‘Letter to the Editor’ from front line service men who had been injured or on leave so the truth continued to get out right to the end of the war. This is also additional evidence to show that the front line infantry were never supplied enough section firepower and not giving the man with his life on the line the best confidence builders that they needed.
As regards to the relative costs of the guns, it should be noted that the manufacturers of the Owen Gun had at no time been asked to reduce their gun to the minimum cost and of sacrificing such qualities as it possessed, and which were not possessed by the Austen. To provide a small example of this, it should be noted that the Owen magazine could carry 35 rounds as compared with 28 for the Austen; that the Owen is provided with a compensator and a 10″ barrel, whereas the Austen had no compensator and has an 8″ barrel. It would therefore appear that the cost comparison had never been carried out by the Army before this advice was tendered by General Blamey at a time when the Owen manufacturers had not even been consulted.
This cartoon seems to be pointed at General Blamey as General Muddle but the problem was more sinister than just muddle.
When General Blamey made the statement referred to above, there was no official information in the possession of the Department of the Army or the Department of Munitions as to the relative cost of the two guns. Investigation had been proceeding for some considerable time, and the cost for the Owen had been ascertained in December 1942 by the Cost Investigation Branch of the Ministry of Munitions. The figure arrived at was £9: 2: 0 for current production at the end of 1942, and the overall average figure was £10: 14: 6 since the beginning of production. Many cost establishing production had to be distributed to less guns in the individual orders. On the other hand, it was being freely stated in Army High Command circles that Austen costs were from a quarter to a half of the Owen cost, but there was in fact no basis or information for this comparison to be made by anyone at that time.
Although the Owen costs had been ascertained in December 1942, it had still been impossible up to the 18th March 1943 for the Ministry of Munitions to obtain a comparative figure from the manufacturers of the Austen. Mr. Jensen informed Mr. V.A. Wardell on the 18th March 1943 that the Cost Investigator was still working at Die Casters but up to date had not furnished his report.
Mr Jensen had the reputation of being the most intelligent Public Servant of the decade.
On the 18th March, Mr. V.A. Wardell telegraphed Senator Arnold asking for further information and stating that Mr. Jensen had no knowledge of the decision transmitted by Senator Arnold to continue the Owen project. Senator Arnold then saw the Minister for Munitions, who was surprised at this information, and as a result telephoned Mr. Jensen. As Mr. Jensen had no positive statement to make in the matter, it was then referred by Mr. Makin to Mr. Forde. Mr. Forde informed Mr. Makin and Senator Arnold that he had changed his mind. It had been decided to standardise on the Austen for all future production, and drop the Owen. ‘Some reference was made in the same conversation to the possibility of the U.S. Army using the Owen.’ However, as the Commander-in-Chief, General Blamey, appears to have held up the U.S. Army order pending a decision as to which gun was to be used by the Australian Army, there was very good reason to doubt the good faith of this remark.
Finding the right staff for firearm work is the number one priority once they are let go, you have to search the country for replacements and then you have to train them for the specific firearm task that they are to work on.
Just A Few Pennies More!
On the 19th March, Lysaght’s received word that there would be no further orders for the Owen Gun, and that the Australian Army would standardise on Austens. On what could this decision have been made? It was not on serviceability, nor on price; nor on production? At that time Twenty-two thousand (22,000) Owen Guns had been delivered as against a combined total for Die Casters and Carmichaels of about four thousand (4,000) Austens. Each week 600 Owen Guns were being delivered against 200 Austens. In any event later it was found that without counting the cost of setting up a much more expensive production process of die casting, which the government ultimately paid for, the Austens were only a few pennies cheaper than the Owen Gun for a much lessor product.
As Lysaght’s had to make a decision affecting the continuity of production at a number of important sub-contractors’ works as well as in their own Newcastle Works, repeated efforts were made to obtain information on the future of the project.
In the interest of the troops, Mr. V.A. Wardell (The general manager of Lysaghts, Port Kembla) took the only effective course open to him, and wrote to the Prime Minister, Mr. John Curtin, on the 5th April 1943, placing the whole position before him. V.A. Wardell was received by the Prime Minister in Canberra; he expressed great concern and said that the matter would be decided by the War Cabinet at a meeting in the next few days.
On these facts, Cabinet reversed the decision and acknowledged the Owen as the standard submachine gun for the Australian Forces. Two further orders, each for five thousand (5,000) guns, were later placed with Lysaght’s.
Owen Gun The Standard Australian Sub-Machine Gun
With the announcement that the Owen Gun was the standard submachine gun for the Australian Forces one would be forgiven for not presuming that production would continue until the end of the immediate hostilities, the end of war in the Pacific against Japan, but they were the last major orders and as all orders had been filled, production ceased in September 1944, by which time Lysaght’s had made 45,477 Owen Guns, over half a million magazines, and 600,000 component spares. All tools and jigs and full manufacturing details were packed up and forwarded to the Small Arms Factory, Lithgow, N.S.W., together with Gerald Wardells notes for future development. By September 1944 all that was left at Port Kembla was the archival history and an empty building.
- Owen Gun Trigger pack Cutaway.
The Owen Gun Annexe at Port Kembla was an arsenal capable of producing 2000 guns a week even though it had never been popular with the Army’s High Command. The continued egotistical rejection of the most successful firearm of the day was a well documented part of Australians war history. It was known then and it is known now. Why, in wartime, when the hazards of war are always in the balance and no one knows what the next move of the enemy could be, would the government close an arsenal that produces what your soldiers want most?
If the factory had exceeded production and filled all needs for the three Armies of the Australian Commonwealth, the factory could have been ‘moth balled’ production line left in tact, in case it was needed, with all the tools left in place. No, this was a very definite decision. Many would think maybe they had something better on hand. That is not true either. As well as it being tested and found to be the best in the world, it was also officially in service until 1966 and Australian soldiers were still using them at the end of 1967 in Vietnam.
What had happened?
On the 14th August 1944 a “Most Secret”,War Crimes Commission was held, “In Camera”, in Melbourne, before his Honour Sir William Webb and it continued until the 31 August 1944. Evidence was taken from witnesses, many questions were asked concerning the lighting on the ship, sightings of a submarine after the sinking and personal affects lost by the survivors, but no investigation or questions as to what cargo the ship was carrying or why there was a dispute on the number of people on board the vessel at the time of its sinking.
Continued on Next page Click Here
Owen Guns Go To Sea?
This is another draft chapter from the Owen Gun Book, the finished chapters will be printed in the book. These electronic chapters are from a different part of the book and will keep changing (growing I hope) with the contributions and discovery of further information. If you have any information to contribute or criticisms please email owenguns@spiderweb.com.au as none of these articles are finalised. Ron Owen
The Owen Gun and the Centaur.
Or man’s in-humanity to man.
At 11 am on the 3rd of September 2009 it was 70 years to the hour from when the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Neville Chamberlain in 1939 solemnly informed the nation and (by almost remote control) the Commonwealth, that they were at war with Germany. He said “My long struggle for peace has failed”. Many have suggested that this book concerning the Australian Icon, (more of a legend) the ‘Owen Gun’ be to commemorate the 70 years since the commencement of World War Two as the book is in fact a book totally concerned with the involvement and survival of Australia during that epic event. However, those sort of sales cliches reek of the ‘150 years of Queensland’ campaign, the ‘Australia Remembers’ campaign, which I feel are politicians grants, throwing pennies to the poor, buying votes, and that is definitely not what this book is about. Government publicity campaigns do very little for educating our new generations as to the reality of national survival or any comfort for those who have felt the loss of a missing close family member. This book is not to ease the powerbrokers conscience.
Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain apprehensively unleashes the Dogs of War. He and other appeasers unknowingly assisted in encouraging the antagonists.
Hopefully, through its many chronicles concerning people who sacrificed their lives, their time on this planet, to rise above the power brokers squabbles, to forge a future for the Australian people, it might inspire the younger generations and generations yet to be born to struggle for right against what seems unbeatable power as did these heros at a time when Politicians and Generals ego’s were more significant than thousands of Australian lives.
Naturally he wants a real one just like his Dads. Its a human thing.
The World War did not begin in 1939 and end in 1945, the world was at war when the world began and will be at war when the world ends. Some say incorrectly ‘that the seeds of the Second World War began in the First World War’. That is wrong because it is all the one war, just broken up with periods of a truce in some places, while the continuation of war is happening in another place on this sorry planet. Ask a Chinese historian he will tell you that the Second World War began in 1931 and ended in 1948. Ask a Vietnamese historian, he will tell you that the war began in 1940 and ended when America pulled out of Vietnam. Ask a Polish historian and he will tell you the war began in 1939 and ended in 1990 when the USSR disintegrated. War is a term relative in degrees of misery to the individual perception of those who suffered in it. In reality we have recesses of truce between campaigns. We might have a perceived peace in Australia but we are involved in many wars in other countries Stratagem, dictates that it is far better to fight in other peoples backyards than your own. Stratagem, dictates that it is far better to get other countries young men fighting your war, than using your own. It is all war and it has never stopped. Every country, in one way or another partake in it, on one side or another, openly or in secret, even by ignoring it, in the same way as the Chamberlain Peace Appeasers it actually encouraged wars by giving confidence to the antagonists. Peace is a perception that your war is not in your area, but it never really stops. Resources, money, material and land are only obtained by the people who control the best science, and all science is really military science. As all science can be used in a military capacity, even the science of retaining and teaching it, the best at it, will prevail in their time, until someone else becomes superior in its use. So this book is concerned with Military Science, the people who used it and the people that they used it against. If this book commemorates anything, I hope it memorializes the little people resistance to the petty bureaucracy of world power players. It has been a world struggle since the earth began. The struggles of those people who used their inventive genius to create, and produce an advanced article of Military science in spite of the countries enemies and worse still in spite of their own military leaders is truly an epic legend. The catalyst that precipitates the explosion of human invention is sadly mans inhumanity to man, of which the human race both benefits and suffers under.
This small part of the whole story concerns the reasons of why the Australian High Command were in so much of a hurry to pack up the Owen Gun Project and have it out of the way before any Official Investigation, or Post War Commissions could cause any further embarrassment to their careers and pensions.
The following is a short summary of the trials, and success of the Owen Gun as listed by Gerald Wardell from his paper THE OWEN GUN – AN ANALYSIS OF EVENTS .
The Lysaught Chief Design Engineeer Gerald S Wardell with one of the .45 Owen Guns before it was blued.
(G.S. Wardell, Chief Engineer, Lysaght’s Works Pty Ltd., Port Kembla, January 1939 to 1965.)
THE OWEN AS A SUB-MACHINE GUN
Following the velocity trials at Maribyrnong on the 4th September, Lysaght’s decided to switch to 9 mm, and with the Minister’s consent, commenced design. Three guns were completed for the public trials already ordered by the Minister for the 29th September 1941, at which the Press and Movietone were to be present.
TRIALS ON 29th SEPTEMBER 1941 AT RANDWICK
The Thompson, the Sten Mk I and the Owen were subject to extensive tests, including being buried in mud and showered with sand. The Thompson and the Sten failed completely in the mud and sand tests; the Owen passed all tests without fault.
USERS TRIALS’ RANDWICK
These followed the 29th September trials and involved 2,700 rounds of constant firing. Rather than being a proven and reliable weapon as claimed by the Army, the Sten broke down three times with premature explosions, necessitating repairs, and the fourth explosion at only 803 rounds so damaged the gun that it was out of the trials. The Thompson and Owen both performed satisfactorily.
TRIALS ON 22nd DECEMBER 1941 AT RANDWICK
These trials – a repeat of the 29th September trials – were at the request of the Trade Commissioner for Canada, for a sound-track film. In these trials a Sten Mk II and a German paratroop gun were tested against the Thompson and the Owen. The results were the same as before; the Owen was the only gun to pass in the mud and sand tests as well as all the other tests.
One of the many trials that they put the Owen Gun through, trying to find something wrong to either slow it down or kill the project. Every time the Owen Gun came up tops.
TRIALS IN MELBOURNE DURING JUNE 1942 BY THE M.G.O’s (Master General of Ordnance) BRANCH
These were extensive trials, to 10,000 rounds, in which the Austen was included for the first time. As expected, the Austen failed the mud test; it also had a number of mechanical failures, requiring repairs before continuing, the most serious being the failure of the trigger/sear spring, which resulted (as reported from England earlier) in the gun running on until the magazine was empty. The Chief Inspector of Small Arms in charge of these tests reported that the Austen was satisfactory in both the endurance and mud tests, as the latter test was “extreme”. The Owen operated without fault throughout, the only failure at 8,500 rounds being the tip breaking off the cocking handle pin, so that the gun could not be stripped fully, but it continued firing for the rest of the day, and would have continued to operate even longer, without repair. The Chief Inspector, however, reported that the Owen “did not live up to the claims made for it”:
AMERICAN ARMY IN AUSTRALIA
As a result of a close examination of all types, the U.S. Army in Australia decided that the Owen was the best sub-machine gun they had found, and placed an order with the Australian Army for 60,000 Owens Guns; this order never got past the O.P.D. (Ordnance Production Directorate)The order would have earned Australia over one million U.S. dollars, a currency much needed in 1943.
BRITAIN, DECEMBER 1943
The Ordnance Board of Britain conducted tests on six types of sub-machine gun; the Owen was rated first in four tests out of five, and the first in overall merit. In short, the Owen was the best sub-machine gun to come out of World War II, and the only gun which could be relied on to fire under bad conditions. End Quote.
TESTED AND FOUND THE BEST IN THE WORLD.
So the Australian High Command finally has to realise that even in the face of four year campaign of organised obstructions and sabotage that it had conducted to insure that the Owen Gun was not accepted in the Australian Defence service and not produced at all. Against all of that obstruction and sabotage, the Owen Gun Project from Port Kembla had produced the most advanced sub machine gun of the age. They produced and equipped some of the Australian Forces. Why did the Government at this time decide to close the project down?
When at the same time the British Government were still producing 20,000 Sten Guns per week (two million in total) a firearm that was much inferior to the Owen Gun?
During February and March 1943, the Commander-in-Chief of the Australian Forces, General Blamey, appears to have decided that further guns were to be ordered, and the question arose as to the type of gun to be selected.
At this stage it is desirable to re-capitulate the orders that had been received by Lysaght’s the manufacturers of the Owen Guns. These, with order numbers and dates, are as follow:
16.6.41 MON233 100 Owen Guns
30.10.41 MON795 2 “ “
20.11.41 MON834 2000 ” “
3.3.42 MON1143 17900 ” “
6.10.42 MON2134 10000 “ “
26.10.42 MON2207 2 “ ” (Mark II)
13.11.42 MON2262 8 “ “ (Navy)
7.1.43 MON2466 250 “ “ (Navy)
16.2.43 MON2606 200 “ ” (Mark II)
_____
TOTAL 30462
_____
Continued Next page Click Here
Armoury Store Page 2
Armoury Store – Guns for Sale – Page 2 of 2 pages
Saur in 308 Win with Interchangable Bolt Magazines and Barrel in 223 R.
At Owen Guns, we have several secure armouries storing thousands of rifles and guns for sale. If you are interested in any of these firearms, please note the make and serial number and send an email to us at owenguns@spiderweb.com.au. We will reply with a photo of the rifle and purchase details.
A list of the firearms in Armoury Store (Store – Page 2 – current at 30/7/09)
| MANUFACTURER | MODEL | ACTION | CAL. | SERIAL NO. | MAG CAP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ARROW | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | NILVIZ | 1 |
| IMPERIAL | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 19519 | 2 |
| BELGIUM | UNKNOWN | BR | 20 | 12487 | 2 |
| LITHGOW | 1 | BO | 22 | 32360 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | 1 | BO | 22 | 446142 | 1 |
| REMINGTON | 12A | PUMP | 22 | 495787 | 10 |
| COOEY | 840 | BR | 12 | 879008 | 1 |
| V G BENTLEY | UNKNOWN | BR | 303 | 48445 | 2 |
| BSA | METEOR | AIR | 177 | NH5465 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 190 | SA | 22 | B1633739 | 10 |
| SPORTCO | 55 | BR | 12 | 5756 | 1 |
| SHANGHAI | 62 | BR | 177 | NILVIZ | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A292133 | 1 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | AB001 | 1 |
| SLAZENGER | 1 | BO | 22 | 761485 | 1 |
| GECADO | 35 | AIR | 177 | NILVIZ | 1 |
| KRICKMAY | 64 | BO | 22 | 231696 | 5 |
| STEVENS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 365R | 1 |
| BSA | LEI | BO | 303 | B26855 | 10 |
| VOERE | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 189709 | 1 |
| REMINGTON | 34 | BO | 22 | 39002 | 7 |
| GECO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 3852 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | NO1MK111 | BO | 25-303 | SP11A1 | 10 |
| LITHGOW | 1 | BO | 22 | 61426 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 2A | BO | 22 | 1058 | 1 |
| REMINGTON | 33 | BO | 22 | 5715 | 1 |
| CBC | UNKNOWN | BR | ACTION ONLY | 579208 | ACTION |
| LITHGOW | 1 | BO | 22 | 27435 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A979227 | 1 |
| BSA | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | IC22170 | 10 |
| BSA | NO 1 | BO | 303 | A12403 | 10 |
| LITHGOW | NO1MK111 | BO | 303 | 2605 | 10 |
| NORINCO | JW15A | BO | 22 | 8808701 | 5 |
| BOITO | REUNA | BREAK | 410 | 05647 | 1 |
| FAST DEER | EM45 | AIR | 177 | 2004671 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | 1900 | BR | 12 | A291721 | |
| BSA | NO1MK111 | BO | 410 | 7583 | 1 |
| STIRLING | 20 | SA | 22 | A448658 | 10 |
| SPORTCO | 55 | BR | 12 | 3833 | 1 |
| ARROW | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | SN1973 | 1 |
| GOLD CUP | T1820 | AIR | 177 | NILVIZ | 1 |
| HOLLIS & SON | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 5815 | 2 |
| DAISY | 36 | AIR | 177 | F272751 | 50 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | ELEY | BR | 410 | A28702 | 1 |
| BREVETE | S.G.D.G | BO | 22 | 379308 | 1 |
| ANC PIEPER | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 10507 | 2 |
| STEVENS | UNKNOWN | BREAK | 12 | 21 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 840 | BR | 20G | 676675 | 1 |
| SMITH & WESSON | 422 | SA | 22 | TCJ6799 | 10 |
| SLAVIA | 618 | AIR | 177 | 129806 | 1 |
| IVER JOHNSON | UNKNOWN | BR | 410 | 56489E | 1 |
| NEUMAN | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 5502 | 2 |
| STITZ | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 329760 | 1 |
| THE DUCK | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A844577 | 1 |
| BERTRAND FILLS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12G | 302 | 2 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | NILVIS | 1 |
| LITHGOW | 1B | BO | 22 | 203567 | 1 |
| SLAZENGER | NO1MK111 | BO | 22HT | 6732/52133 | 5 |
| HIGH STANDARD | SUPERMATIC | SA | 22 | 2500576 | 10 |
| BONEHILL CG | BIRMINGHAM | BREAK | 12G | 117908 | 2 |
| SLAVIA | G18 | BOLT | 17 | 181780 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 1904 | BOLT | 22 | 2981899 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | LA | BO | 22 | 101484 | 1 |
| SHANGHAI | 62 | AIR | 177 | S050629 | 1 |
| STIRLING | 1500 | BO | 22M | A123297 | 5 |
| VOERE | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 263392 | 10 |
| SPORTCO | 62A | BO | 22 | RA5124 | 10 |
| SHARP-INNOOVA | 62 | AIR | 0.177 | NIL VISIBLE | 1 |
| COLEMAN | CROSSMAN 70 | AIR | 177 | 180051253 | 1 |
| ELG | 1896 | BR | 12 | 25 | 1 |
| HUNGARIAN | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | 57376 | 1 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | NIL | 1 |
| CZ | 85 | FRAME ONLY | NIL | 03753 | NIL |
| FN | UNKNOWN | FRAME ONLY | NIL | 511674 | NIL |
| FN | UNKNOWN | FRAME ONLY | NIL | 220674 | NIL |
| PHOENIX | HP22 | SA | 22 | 4176085 | 10 |
| PHOENIX | HP22 | SA | 22 | 4176085 | 10 |
| NORTH AMERICAN ARMS | UNKNOWN | RV | 22 | EO39224 | 5 |
| NORTH AMERICAN ARMS | UNKNOWN | FRAME ONLY | NIL | S1101 | NIL |
| NORTH AMERICAN ARMS | UNKNOWN | DEACTIVATED | NIL | S1103 | NIL |
| NORTH AMERICAN ARMS | UNKNOWN | DEACTIVATED | NIL | LO23457 | NIL |
| NORTH AMERICAN ARMS | UNKNOWN | DEACTIVATED | NIL | EO26682 | NIL |
| NORTH AMERICAN ARMS | UNKNOWN | DEACTIVATED | NIL | EO39250 | NIL |
| COOEY | 60 | BOLT | 22 | BD6121242Q | 15 |
| INDUSTRY | 61 | BREAK | 177 | 148 | 1 |
| VOERE | 64 | BOLT | 22 | 249164 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 2022RF | BOLT | 22 | RJM95 | 1 |
| NORINCO | JW15 | BO | 22 | 8807200 | 5 |
| BRNO | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | 03338 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | NO1MK111 | BO | 303 | 7329 | 10 |
| NIL STATED | UNKNOWN | BREAK | 77 | EB81046 | 1 |
| BENTLEY | 30 | PUMP | 12 | A650046 | 5 |
| VOERE | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 842978 | 5 |
| BAIKAL | RA04 | BR | ACTION ONLY | LF01 | ActionOnly |
| CARCANO | 1940 | BO | 6.5 | AZ2641 | 5 |
| ENFIELD | NO1MK111 | BO | 303 | 4118F | 10 |
| LITHGOW | 1 | BO | 22 | 59103 | 1 |
| MONARCH | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 3555 | 1 |
| BSA | METEOR | AIR | 22 | TC1446 | 1 |
| STIRLING | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 447585 | 1 |
| BAIKAL | 1J18 | BR | 12 | M24009 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 1899 | BO | 22 | SO1234 | 1 |
| SPRINGFIELD | 53B | BO | 22 | Q41119461 | 1 |
| NORINCO | EM45 | AIR | 177 | H0050 | 1 |
| SLAZENGER | 12 | BO | 22 | 8239 | 5 |
| CLAYCO | 4 | BO | 22 | 830770 | 5 |
| BENTLEY | 12 70 | BR | 12G | 10491 | 2 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | NIL VISIBLE | 1 |
| SPRINGFIELD | 56 | BO | 22 | 239 | 5 |
| K.F.C. | 33 | BR | 12 | 116105 | 1 |
| FALKE | 50 | AIR | 177 | NIL VISIBLE | 1 |
| ANSCHUTZ | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 618961 | 5 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | UNKNOWN | BR | 16 | A288614 | 1 |
| EDDYSTONE | M17 | BO | 3006 | 1226055 | 5 |
| LAKEFIELD | MARK11 | BO | 22 | 58018 | 5 |
| STRAITLINE | UNKNOWN | BO | 12 | 330868 | 1 |
| ARMS CO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A20775 | 1 |
| ARMS CO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A45099 | 1 |
| REMINGTON | 700 | BOLT | 270 | A63559299 | 5 |
| PARKER HALE | UNKNOWN | BOLT | 30-Jun | R32280 | 5 |
| SUHL | UNKNOWN | BREAK | 20G | 530715 | 2 |
| LITHGOW | 1B | BO | 22 | 223443 | 1 |
| BAIKAL | UNKNOWN | BREAK | 12 | 1 25095 | 1 |
| SPORTCO | 40 | BO | 22 | V2867 | 1 |
| GECADO | 22 | AIR | 17 | NIL | 1 |
| SLAZENGER | 1B | BO | 22 | 130092 | 1 |
| STIRLING | 1500 | BO | 22M | A116803 | 5 |
| SAVAGE | MK11 | BO | 22 | 334313 | 5 |
Armoury Store Page 1
Armoury Store – Guns for Sale – Page 1 of 2 pages
Saur in 308 Win with Interchangable Bolt Magazines and Barrel in 223 R.
At Owen Guns, we have several secure armouries storing thousands of rifles and guns for sale. If you are interested in any of these firearms, please note the make and serial number and send an email to us at owenguns@spiderweb.com.au. We will reply with a photo of the rifle and purchase details.
A list of the firearms in Armoury Store (Store – Page 1 – current at 30/7/09)
| MANUFACTURER | MODEL | ACTION | CAL. | SERIAL NO. | MAG CAP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| RUGER | BEARCAT | RV | 22 | 9303836 | 6 |
| LEE ENFIELD | 4Mk1 | BO | 303 | 16114 | 10 |
| BSA | Sportsmanis | BO | 22 | LB16148 | 15 |
| PARKER HALE | UNKNOWN | BO | 243 | 92200 | 1 |
| GAMO | EXPO-26 | BR | 177 | 041C05259696 | 1 |
| MIROKU | ML22 | LA | 22 | 3560218126 | 10 |
| BOITO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12g | 78208 | 2 |
| SPORTCO | 44 | BO | 308 | D1625 | 1 |
| STIRLING | 12 | BO | 22 | 675859 | 1 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | NILVIS | 1 |
| SLAVIA | 618 | AIR | 177 | 191895 | 1 |
| Revnies Simonis & Bertrand | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 57037 | 2 |
| MASS ARMS CO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | F978 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARD. | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A27311 | 1 |
| JGA | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 264088 | 1 |
| STEVENS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 807NO | 1 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | 6003 | 1 |
| MOSSBERG | 741 | BR | 22m | 1310545 | 5 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARD. | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A6209 | 1 |
| B.S.A. | No1MK111 | BO | 303 | E730 | 10 |
| STIRLING | 1500 | BO | 22m | A123430 | 5 |
| SAVAGE | 3400 | BO | 222 | 118348 | 4 |
| WINCHESTER | 37A | BR | 12 | C593340 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARD. | 1900 | BR | 12 | A222339 | 1 |
| ARISAKA | 38 | BO | 6.5 | 1771498 | 5 |
| SAVAGE | 3C | BO | 22 | 3240 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | 12 | BO | 22 | 25877 | 5 |
| NORICA | 56 | AIR | 177 | 199474 | 1 |
| GAMO | EXPO | AIR | 177 | 55712 | 1 |
| NORINCO | EM45 | AIR | 177 | 2003726 | 1 |
| DAISY | RED RIDER | AIR | 177 | NILVIS | 100 |
| CBC | 122 | BO | 22 | 29905 | 5 |
| SPORTCO | 62A | BO | 22 | RA989 | 10 |
| STITZ | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 603 | 1 |
| IVER JOHNSON | 2X | BO | 22 | 40160 | 1 |
| BELGIUM | UNKNOWN | BR | 410 | . 000 | 1 |
| PIONEER | G6432 | AIR | 177 | . 007327 | 1 |
| LAKEFIELD | MARK11 | BO | 22 | 36381 | 5 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARD. | STANDARD | BR | 12 | A995453 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARD. | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 423829 | 1 |
| NORINCO | EM45 | AIR | 177 | . 028777 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | 1A | BO | 22 | NILVIS | 1 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | A119738 | 10 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARD. | 1900 | BR | 12 | A35875 | 1 |
| B.S.A. | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | 64992 | 1 |
| UNKNOWN | NILVIS | BO | 22 | 230670 | 1 |
| ARROW | NILVIS | AIR | 177 | NILVIS | 1 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | 775762 | 10 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | Q15940RAR | 1 |
| LUCZNIK | 87 | AIR | 177 | 2973 | 1 |
| SPORTMASTER | 3 ACE | BO | 22 | NILVIS | 1 |
| UNKNOWN | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 182 | 2 |
| RIVER SIDE ARMS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 15426 | 2 |
| B.S.A. | No1MK111 | BO | 303 | 57679 | 10 |
| SPORTCO | 43 | BO | 22 | VJ970 | 1 |
| SEALION | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | 126 | 1 |
| BOITO | N.A. | BR | 12 | 434275 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | 1 | BO | 22 | 29205 | 1 |
| PLEASURE | KS2 | AIR | 177 | 1058 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | No1MK111 | BO | 303 | 95368 | 10 |
| STEVENS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | NILVIS | 1 |
| C.G. BONEHILL | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 127140 | 2 |
| GRI | No1MK111 | BO | 25.303 | 12742 | 10 |
| HOLLIS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 116044 | 2 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARD. | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A208198 | 1 |
| SAVAGE | 340 | BO | 222 | C019635 | 5 |
| JGA | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 450516 | 1 |
| NORINCO | 61 | AIR | 177 | GL1895 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 4 | BO | 22 | GL4318 | 1 |
| B.S.A. | No1Mk1 | BO | 303 | A38717 | Act Only |
| COOEY | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 45279 | 1 |
| BRNO | 1 | BO | 22 | 80333 | 5 |
| ENFIELD | No1Mk111 | BO | 303 | 39190 | 10 |
| VOERE | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 217468 | 1 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | A006314 | 1 |
| EDDYSTONE | P14 | BO | 25-303 | 544942 | 5 |
| SAVAGE | SPORTER | BO | 3220 | 118297 | 5 |
| BAIKAL | 17 | BO | 22 | AAN8946 | 5 |
| NORINCO | Fast Deer | AIR | 177 | 2003271 | 1 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | 957087 | 10 |
| REMINGTON | 33 | BO | 22 | 001 | 1 |
| SLAVIA | 631 | AIR | 177 | 577905 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | No1Mk111 | BO | 303 | 82438 | 10 |
| LEE ENFIELD | No4Mk1 | BO | 25-303 | L1322M1942 | 10 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | 690034 | 10 |
| STEVENS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 285M | 1 |
| SLAZENGER | 12 | BO | 22 | 5037 | 5 |
| D GOODFELLOW | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 19768 | 2 |
| SHARP-INNOOVA | UNKNOWN | AIR | 22 | A301863 | 1 |
| SPORTCO | 54 | BR | 12 | 903 | 12 |
| UNKNOWN | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 259209 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 1894 | LA | 3030 | 4785066 | 6 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | 775520 | 10 |
| HOLLIS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 9064 | 1 |
| BSA | MERCURY | AIR | 177 | WC03450 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 39 | BO | 22 | 41620 | 1 |
| GECADO | 22 | AIR | 177 | FF027 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 67 | BO | 22 | Q3525585 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 04A | BO | 22 | 28 | 1 |
| JGA | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 444889 | 1 |
| SLAZENGER | 12 | BO | 22 | 5810 | 5 |
| VICKERS | ACCIAIO | BR | 12 | 16106 | 2 |
| REMINGTON | 34 | BO | 22 | 160748 | 10 |
| OYEZ | DOUBLE | BR | 12g | 12 | 2 |
| COLT | 1903 | SA | 32 | 507697 | 8 |
| UNKNOWN | UNKNOWN | BO | 7.62 | 6232 | 3 |
| LITHGOW | 1B | BO | 22 | 126384 | 1 |
| WESTINGHOUSE | UNKNOWN | BO | 7.62×54 | 659922 | 5 |
| GECADO | 22 | AIR | 177 | CH57 | 1 |
| B.S.A. | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 54607 | 1 |
| SLAZENGER | 12 | BO | 22 | 48530 | 10 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | 692698 | 10 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | 582708 | 10 |
| GECADO | 25 | AIR | 177 | . 0869 | 1 |
| SHANGHAI | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | 104357 | 1 |
| B.S.A. | Sportsman 15 | BO | 22 | LA10352 | 15 |
| GERMANY | AKAH | Blank Fire | Blank Fire | NILVIZ | 6 |
| SHANGHAI | 61 | AIR | 177 | NILVIZ | 1 |
| ARROW | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | NILVIZ | 1 |
| KRUPP | SINGLE | BO | 22HT | 178837 | 1 |
| VOERE | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 249366 | 1 |
| MOSSBERG | 195KA | BO | 12 | 30578 | 2 |
| LITHGOW | No1Mk111 | BO | 303 | 78910 | 10 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | STANDARD | BR | 12 | A858352 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 340 | BR | 12 | C583866 | 1 |
| BSA | MERCURY | AIR | 177 | NILVIZ | 1 |
| SQUIRES BINGHAM | 14 | BO | 22 | 390844 | 5 |
| WINCHESTER | 1892 | LA | 32-20 | 56557 | 7 |
| WINCHESTER | Feb-22 | BO | 22 | 1058 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | No1Mk3 | BO | 0.303 | E83153 | 10 |
| CACARNO ACTION ONLY | 41 | BO | NIL | 2027 | NIL |
| GAMO | EXPO26 | AIR | 177 | 2192937 | 1 |
| STIRLING | 110 | BO | 22 | 142811 | 5 |
| HUNGRY | NIL | AIR | 177 | 54776 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 2 | BO | 22 | 291898 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 39 | BO | 22 | 68077747 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A163792 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | CHAMPION | BR | 12 | 11548 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 92 | LA | RECIEVER | 947964 | ONLY |
| AIR MATCH | 400 | AIR | 177 | 01888 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | No1MK3 | BO | ACTION ONLY | 6595 | ACTION |
| ANSON & DEELEY | UNKNOWN | BBR | 12 | 27147 | 2 |
| ANSON & DEELEY | UNKNOWN | AR | 12 | 36556 | 177 |
| NORINCO | 61 | AIR | 177 | GGBAB001 | 1 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | A271197 | 5 |
| DAISY | 880 | AIR | 177 | 7 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 320 | BO | 22 | D62705 | 10 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | 1908 | BR | 12 | 410021 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | 1908 | BR | 12 | 533440 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | SINGLE | BO | 22 | 261788 | 1 |
| SPORTING ARMS | HUNTSMAN | BO | 22 | CS0911570 | 1 |
| CBC | 122 | BO | 22 | 96936 | 10 |
| HOLLIS | N-A | BR | 12 | 67835 | 10 |
| LITHGOW | N-A | BO | 22 | 4150 | 1 |
| BSA | SPORTSMAN 5 | BO | 22 | 6111966 | 5 |
| CROSSMAN | 2200 | AIR | 22 | 68000128 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | No1Mk111 | BO | 25303 | 78664 | 10 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | A440771 | 1 |
| ISHAPORE | No1Mk111 | BO | 25-303 | 22750 | 10 |
| GECADO | 25 | AIR | 177 | 359 | 1 |
| SLAZENGER | 12 | BO | 22 | 77109 | 10 |
| SLAZENGER | 12 | BO | 22 | 5882 | 10 |
| LITHGOW | 1B | BO | 22 | 170799 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | 1A | BO | 22 | 76710 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 67 | BO | 22 | NILVIZ | 1 |
| LITHGOW | 1B | BO | 22 | 22847 | 1 |
| WW GREENER | CADET | MH | 297-230 | 697 | 1 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | B835 | 1 |
| RUSSIAN | NK38 | AIR | 177 | B53915 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 67A | BO | 22 | 31007 | 1 |
| DAISY | NA | AIR | 177 | Q13794PC | 1 |
| DAISY | 1894BB | AIR | 177 | Q14136PC | 1 |
| IVER JOHNSON | M81 | BR | 12 | 3342 | 2 |
| COOEY | 61 | BO | 22 | LM003 | 1 |
| NORICA | 61 | AIR | 177 | LM004 | 1 |
| CBC | 722 | BO | 22 | LM002 | 5 |
| ANSCHULTZ | 1450 | BO | 22 | 1274184 | 5 |
| SLAZENGER | 1B | BO | 22 | 213230 | 1 |
| SPORTCO | 62 | BO | 22 | R710 | 10 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | 303 | BR | 12 | A367030 | 1 |
| HAENEL | 303 | AIR | 177 | 757802 | 1 |
| STITZ | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 311834 | 1 |
| MOSSBERG | 395KB | BO | 12 | 1223694 | 2 |
| LITHGOW | 12 | BO | 22 | 4548 | 5 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | 630119 | 5 |
| SLAZENGER | 12 | BO | 22 | 6320 | 10 |
| STEVENS | SINGLE | BR | 12 | 746 | 1 |
| RUGER | Oct-22 | SA | 22 | 23481132 | 10 |
| STIRLING | 20 | SA | 22 | A530682 | 10 |
| NORINCO | JW15A | BO | 22 | 9430208 | 5 |
| ITALIAN | 194VX111 | BO | 6.5 | AN9220 | 5 |
| HARRINGTON & RICHARDSO | UNKNOWN | BO | 12 | 22595A | 1 |
| LITHGOW | NO1MK111 | BO | 303 | 62472 | 10 |
| RUSSIAN | NK38 | AIR | 177 | B56409 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 1900 | PUMP | 22 | 314715 | 6 |
| SLAZENGER | 12 | BO | 22 | 48407 | 10 |
| JGA | UNKNOWN | BO | 22 | 446155 | 1 |
| CROSSMAN | 766 | AIR | 177 | 381045306 | 12 |
| SCOUT | 500 | AIR | 177 | 100417 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | NO1MK111 | BO | 303 | 61529 | 10 |
Armoury 5 Page 1
Armoury 5 – Guns for Sale – Page 1 of 2 pages
Saur in 308 Win with Interchangable Bolt Magazines and Barrel in 223 R.
At Owen Guns, we have several secure armouries storing thousands of rifles and guns for sale. If you are interested in any of these firearms, please note the make and serial number and send an email to us at owenguns@spiderweb.com.au. We will reply with a photo of the rifle and purchase details.
A list of the firearms in Armoury 5 (EA320 – Page 1 – current at 30/7/09)
| MANUFACTURER | MODEL | ACTION | CAL. | SERIAL NO. | MAG CAP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| LEBEL | 1886 | BO | 8mm | 4932 | 3 |
| CARCANO | Mod 93 | BO | 6.5 | H6843 | 5 |
| LITHGOW | No.1 Mk11 | BO | 303 | F39270 | 10 |
| MAUSER | 98 | BO | 8×57 | EA26341 | 5 |
| STEYR | 95 | BO | 8×56 | 5264I | 5 |
| STEYR | 95 | BO | 8×56 | 6960F | 5 |
| MAUSER | 1895 | BO | 7×57 | B4481 | 5 |
| ST.ETEINNE | 1907 | BO | 8mm | 25734 | 3 |
| REMINGTON | 91 | BO | 7.62×54 | 32784 | 5 |
| RUSSIAN MOSIN NAGANT | 30 | BO | 7.62×54 | 3432 | 5 |
| TURKISH | 98 | BO | 8×57 | 107547 | 5 |
| ENFIELD | MARTINI | MH | 303 | 28807653 | 1 |
| FRANCOTTE | CADET | MH | 297-230 | 70218 | 1 |
| CHATELLERAULT | 1907 | BO | 8mm | 4812 | 3 |
| LACORUNA | 98 | BO | 7.92×57 | EA24631 | 5 |
| JAPANESE ARISAKA | 38 | BO | 6.5 | 22987 | 5 |
| F.N. MAUSER | 98 | BO | 30.06 | F15315 | 5 |
| JAPANESE ARISAKA | 99 | BO | 7.7 | 77003 | 5 |
| F.N. MAUSER | 98 | BO | 30-06 | F18891 | 5 |
| SPANISH | DESTROYER | BO | 9mm | 33915 | 7 |
| BRAZIL MAUSER | 98-08 | BO | 30-06 | 9985 | |
| SWISS MOSIN NAGANT | 91 | BO | 7.62X54 | 34339417 | 5 |
| KROPATSCHEK | M1886 | BO | 8 | MM930 | 4 |
| TERNI | 38 CARBINE | BO | 6.5 | BU3278 | 5 |
| ARISAKA | 99 | BO | 7.7 | 22486 | 5 |
| ARISAKA | 38 | BO | 7.7 | 614151 | 5 |
| CHINESE | 98 | BO | 8 | 7428 | 5 |
| TERNI | 38 | BO | 6.5 | 819670 | 5 |
| WAFFEN FABRIK | 1904 | BO | 7.9 | B6070 | 5 |
| SPANISH | 1916 | BO | 7×57 | X7861 | 5 |
| AFGHANISTAN | MARTINI | MH | 303 | 2222 | 1 |
| SMLE | Mk IV | BO | 303 | 75332L1631 | 10 |
| HUSQVARNA | SAKRAT | BO | 22 | 77686 | 1 |
| CARL GUSTAF | 96 | BO | 6.5×55 | 252672 | 5 |
| MOSIN NAGANT | M1944 | BO | 7.62×54 | 9166 | 5 |
| MOSIN NAGANT | M1944 | BO | 7.62×54 | 57268 | 5 |
| SPAIN MAUSER | 93 | BO | 308 | 4057 | 5 |
| FRENCH MAS | 1936-51 | BO | 7.5 | F58502 | 5 |
| CARCANO | M26 | BO | 6.5 | A9342 | 5 |
| MOSIN NAGANT | 53 | BO | 7.62×54 | 3279642 | 5 |
| ITALIAN | NILVIS | BO | 6.5 | BK4841 | 5 |
| D.W.M. | 1888 | BO | 303 | 9281 | 5 |
| STEYR | 95 | BO | 8×56 | 2895D | 5 |
| CHINESE MOSIN NAGANT | 54 | BO | 7.62×54 | 3265461 | 5 |
| TIKKA MOSIN NAGANT | 91 | BO | 7.62×54 | 36670 | 5 |
| SPRINGFIELD | 1903 Mk1 | BO | 30.06 | 1106853 | 5 |
| Remington Mosin Nagant | 91 | BO | 7.62×54 | 141736 | 5 |
| RUSSIAN MOSIN NAGANT | 91 | BO | 7.62×54 | 925 | 5 |
| Westinghouse Mosin Nag. | 91 | BO | 7.62×54 | 60065769397 | 5 |
| ENFIELD ARMS | STOCKMAN | BO | 7.62×54 | 1358783 | 5 |
| STEYR | 1886 | BO | 8mmKOP | D0731 | 3 |
| CHATELLERAULT | M93 | BO | 8mmLEBEL | 64345 | 3 |
| OBERNDORF | 96 | BO | 6.5×55 | 53574 | 5 |
| BREDA | MO3/16 | BO | 6.5 | AA9228 | 5 |
| DANZIG | GEW88 | BO | 8×57 | 7280 | 5 |
| HEMBURG | Ma5 | BO | 6.5 | 2703 | 5 |
| HEMBURG | M95 | BO | 6.5 | ZOB69 | 3 |
| ARISAKA | M99 | BO | 7.7 | 2986 | 5 |
| HEMBURG | M95 | BO | 6.5 | 742D | 5 |
| WAFFEN FABRIK | M71 | BO | 11mm | 6157N | 1 |
| UNKNOWN | Mod88EWS | BO | 8mm | 44523 | 5 |
| SPANISH MAUSER | 93 | BO | 7×57 | K3100 | 5 |
| Lacoruna Spanish Mauser | 98/43 | BO | 8×57 | C9375 | 5 |
| LITHGOW | No.1Mk111 | BO | 303-25 | 93876 | 10 |
| Valmet Mosin Nagant | 91 | BO | 7.62×54 | 5397 | 5 |
| SAKO MOSIN NAGANT | 91 | BO | 7.62×54 | 218839 | 5 |
| ARISAKA | 39 | BO | 7.7 | 25767 | 5 |
| Lacoruna Spanish Mauser | 98 | BO | 8×57 | W4450 | 5 |
| CARCANO | 91 | BO | 6.5 | M8193 | 5 |
| SPANISH MAUSER | 98 | BO | 8×57 | EA25120 | 5 |
| KRUPP | BSW | BO | 22H | 180350 | 1 |
| LOEWE | 93 | BO | 7×57 | C815 | 5 |
| LITHGOW | No.1 Mk111 | BO | 303 | 67154 | 10 |
| LOEWE | 93 | BO | 7×57 | D9216 | 5 |
| LITHGOW | No2Mk4-1 Mk3 | BO | 22LR | C93185 | 1 |
| STEYR | 1914 | BO | 6.5 | 5131G | 5 |
| B.S.A. | 1907 | BO | 297/230 | 3570 | 1 |
| MAUSER | 3 | BO | 7.65 | 35905 | 5 |
| DWM | 98 | BO | 7.65 | E2050 | 5 |
| CHINESE MAUSER | 98 | BO | 8×57 | C3768 | 5 |
| MANLICHER | MLE190715 | BO | 8mm | 4342 | 5 |
| CHINESE MAUSER | 98 | BO | 8X57 | 99418 | 5 |
| MOSIN NAGANT | 91/30 | BO | 30 | CA2300 | 5 |
| B.S.A. | CADET | MH | 22 | 3086 | 1 |
| ENFIELD | No.5 | BO | 303 | X2200 | 10 |
| GLOCK | 17 | SA | 9mm | DBG012 | 17 |
| SMITH & WESSON | RV | 38 | 154K727 | 6 | |
| GLOCK | 17 | SA | 9 | G3382 | 17 |
| SMITH & WESSON | RV | 38 | 2D07073 | 6 | |
| COLT | WA | RV | 41 | 264951 | 6 |
| SMITH & WESSON | WA | RV | 38 | 52458 | 5 |
| ELBAR | WA | RV | 32 | 99917 | 6 |
| SMITH & WESSON | RV | 38 | 6K61440 | 6 | |
| COLT | Police Positive | RV | 38 | F62487 | 6 |
| COLT | NA | RV | 38 | F72241 | 6 |
| ROSSI | RV | 38 | W279855 | 5 | |
| SMITH & WESSON | RV | 38 | R323703 | 6 | |
| SMITH & WESSON | RV | 38 | C540809 | 6 | |
| SMITH & WESSON | RV | 38 | J119242 | 5 | |
| SMITH & WESSON | RV | 38 | D643197 | 6 | |
| NAMBU | SA | 8 | 53039 | 7 | |
| LLAMA | NILVIZ | RV | 38 | 725908 | 6 |
| CROSSMAN | Mk11 Target | AIR | 177 | 47500768 | 1 |
| OWEN ENFIELD | TC10 | SA | 9 | 123 | 30 |
| XSD | 213 | SA | 9 | 15011869 | 8 |
| STEYR | 1912 | SA | 9 | 7414C | 8 |
| EDDYSTONE | 17 | BO | 3006 | 1268776 | 5 |
| FAMAGE | 98 | BO | 30.06 | 29796 | 5 |
| ITAJUBA | 54 | BO | 6.62×63 | 17684 | 5 |
| MAUSER | 98 | BO | 8×57 | 201 | 5 |
| MAUSER | 71 | BO | 12ga | JL141140 | 1 |
| SMLE | No.1Mk111 | BO | 303 | C98755 | 10 |
| SEMPERT & KRIEGHOFF | MAY | BR | 12 | 13737 | 2 |
| CARL GUSTAFS | 38 | BO | 6.5 | 343054 | 5 |
| D.W.M. | P08 | SA | 9 | 7180 | 8 |
| WINCHESTER | 92 | LA | 32-20 | 691377 | 6 |
| WINCHESTER | 88 | LA | 243 | 97016 | 4 |
| B.S.A. | METEOR | AIR | 177 | TH02780 | 1 |
| LITHGOW | 12 | BO | 22 | 21545 | 5 |
| LITHGOW | No.1Mk111 | BO | 303 | 63323 | 10 |
| FRED WILLIAMS | UNKNOWN | BR | 12 | 148744 | 2 |
| HAMMERLI | SINGLE | AIR | 177 | 38399 | 1 |
| HARPERS FERRY | UNKNOWN | Cap & Ball | 44 | 52110 | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 6 | PA | 22 | 435734 | 10 |
| SAVAGE | 1905 | BO | 32-20 | 59051 | 5 |
| SAVAGE | 1905 | BO | 22 | 34107 | 5 |
| BROWNING | UNKNOWN | PA | 22 | 84369 | 10 |
| REMINGTON | IMPROVED | FB | 22 | 474371 | 1 |
| THE WONGA | Single Barrel | BR | 12 | 89840 | 1 |
| RIVERSIDE ARMS | Double Barrel | BR | 12 | 34381 | 2 |
| SPORTCO | 62A | BO | 22 | RA528 | 10 |
| BSA | METEOR | AIR | 177 | N917304 | 1 |
| ENFIELD | TC10 | SA | 9mm | A123 | 32 |
| FN | MAUSER | BO | 30.06 | 6670 | 5 |
| CVA | KENTUCKEY | ML | 45 | 92348 | 1 |
| BSA | CADET | MH | 310 | 15423 | 1 |
| W.W. GREENER | CADET | MH | 310 | 8024 | 1 |
| OBERNDORF | 98 | BO | 8×57 | G18036 | 5 |
| ARGENTINE MAUSER | 9 | BO | 7.65 | E2141 | 5 |
| MAUSER | 96 | BO | 6.5×55 | 2562 | 5 |
| MAUSER | SIMEASE | BO | 8mm | AB001 | 5 |
| W.W. GREENER | SINGLE SHOT | MH | 22 | J282829 | 1 |
| RICHARD BURTON | POACHER | BR | 410 | 104 | 1 |
| RUGER | Mk11 | SA | 22 | 21705216 | 10 |
| GECADO | UNKNOWN | OTHER | 22 | 1281 | 1 |
| NORINCO | JW9 | BO | 22 | 33489 | 5 |
| ENFIELD | UNKNOWN | MH | 20 | 756 | 1 |
| VICKERS & CO | ACCIGIO | BR | 12 | 13798 | 2 |
| BROWNING | PUMP | PA | 22 | 648641 | 10 |
| STEVENS | FAVOURITE | FB | 32 | G314 | 1 |
| ARISAKA | 38 | BO | 6.5 | NILVIS | 5 |
| BRNO | 2 | BO | 22 | 400253 | 5 |
| RUGER | 2 | SA | 22 | 21622142 | 10 |
| REMINGTON | 788 | BO | 222 | B6029535 | 4 |
| SAVAGE | 30 | BO | 22 | NILVIS | 1 |
| WINCHESTER | 60A | BO | 22 | NILVIS | 1 |
| STIRLING | 14 | BO | 22 | 393556 | 10 |
| TRANTER | The Best Security | RV | 450 | NILVIS | 6 |
| MAUSER | PORTUGESE | BO | 8 | 9454 | 5 |
| NORINCO | JW15 | BO | 22 | 9003081 | 5 |
| HUSQVARNA | 38 | BO | 6.5 | 665687 | 5 |
| J. PURDEY & SON | 2 | BR | 12g | 20638 | 2 |
| J. PURDEY & SON | 1 | BR | 12 | 20637 | 2 |
| BRNO | 2 | BO | 22 | 124197 | 5 |
| WINCHESTER | 70 | BO | 243 | G1363939 | 3 |
| LITHGOW | No1Mk111 | BO | 303 | 29578 | 10 |
| SPORTCO | CLUBMAN | BO | 22 | T218 | 1 |
| STIRLING | 15 | BO | 22m | 633457 | 5 |
| BENTLEY | 30 | PA | 12 | 800462 | 4 |
| BARNETT | DEMON | XBOW | NA | RG301058 | NA |
| LITHGOW | No1Mk111 | BO | 30 | 14245 | 10 |
| VINAMAX | 54 | SA | 7.62 | 21011439 | 8 |
| VINAMAX | 54 | SA | 7.62 | 14070034 | 8 |
| VINAMAX | 54 | SA | 7.62 | 12022433 | 8 |
| VINAMAX | 54 | SA | 7.62 | 3134584 | 8 |
| VINAMAX | 54 | SA | 7.62 | 22014578 | 8 |
| XSD | 88 | SA | 9mm | 100056 | 15 |
| VINAMAX | 54 | SA | 7.62 | 25049405 | 8 |
| XSD | 88 | SA | 9mm | 100059 | 15 |
| VINAMAX | 54 | SA | 7.62 | 6504336 | 8 |
| XSD | 88 | SA | 9mm | 100055 | 15 |
| VINAMAX | 54 | SA | 7.62 | 9669322 | 8 |
| LITHGOW | No1Mk111 | BO | 303 | 72424 | 10 |
| WINCHESTER | P14 | BO | 303 | W160186 | 5 |
| CONDOR | UNKNOWN | AIR | 177 | KLW222 | 1 |
| SPORTCO | 71A | SA | 22 | EA6935 | 10 |
| LITHGOW | 1 | BO | 22 | 110245 | 1 |
| SMITH & WESSON | 14 | RV | 38 | 1K97086 | 6 |
| MARTINI | TANNER | BO | 300 | 2505 | 1 |
| HUSQVARNA | 38 | BO | 6.5X55 | 58179 | 5 |
| BSA | No1Mk3 | BO | 303 | 1732 | 10 |
| CARL GUSTAV | 96 | BO | 6.5X55 | 71912 | 5 |
| WINCHESTER | 1200 | PA | 12 | L1040147 | 5 |
| BSA | No1Mk3 | BO | 303 | 383 | 10 |
| NORINCO | JW15 | BO | 22 | 9512455 | 5 |
| BSA | NIL VIS | BO | 243 | 11R3599 | 5 |
| SPORTCO | 44 | BO | 308 | DE756 | 1 |
| DWM | 1904 | BO | 6.5 | C9912 | 5 |
| BRNO | 2 | BO | 22 | 139079 | 5 |
| NORINCO | JW15 | BO | 22 | 15555 | 5 |